Updating a trim tilt unit to support modern guages.

[XateEsix]

Hello everyone,

I am in the process or restoring a old Chrysler boat and outboard engine.

The motor is 1971 Chrysler 120HP outboard.

I wanted to add a tilt and trim unit to it so I purchased a used unit that requires a new or rebuilt motor.

I am also working on selecting the new gauges for the system.

I have noticed that none of the aftermarket gauges I can find seem to support the trim guages for pre 1995 force tilt and trim systems.

Does anyone know what changed in 1995 to the Force tilt trim systems and can I upgrade my existing unit to work with new gauges?

Thank you all!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Updating a trim tilt unit to support modern guages.

They didn't offer trim guages on the older Force motors.They didn't put senders on the pre 92=94 motors.J

 

[XateEsix]

Re: Updating a trim tilt unit to support modern guages.

Jerryjerry05,

I understand that the early motors didn't have sending units but as I understand it the later motors that were used on this same setup did have sending units.

Since I have to rebuild or replace the motor on the unit I have would it be posible to use a later model motor and retrofit it into this unit?

If it is possible then how would I figure out which motor I want to use?

Thank you

 

[XateEsix]

Re: Updating a trim tilt unit to support modern guages.

I found a tilt trim guage kit for Force motors between 88 and 93 with a part number of 820568A1 or F5H161 which I wonder if it would work on the current pumps provided by aftermarket vendors like Sierra and Mallory.
I also wonder if the pump would work on my Trim/Tilt system which I think is a 86.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again!

 

[XateEsix]

Re: Updating a trim tilt unit to support modern guages.

Here is a picture of the trim unit.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Updating a trim tilt unit to support modern guages.

you need to buy a set of tubing and a mounting bracket in order to mount that 92-94 trim system onto your chrysler. You do not want to use it as-is. That is the mercury brain fart system. The bottom of pump is underwater on most boats. One of the dumbest things ever done in the marine trim universe. Running a close second is the use of cheap ATF in a system where the manufacturer clearly says "use oil" on the decal. Which, btw, that system probably has red ATF fluid. It causes the orings to crystalize and fragment with the combination of high pressure and age. If it was me, I'd be giving that system a full rebuild before it got anywhere close to my boat. After rebuilding, replumbing, and remounting you will have a great system. Just use hydraulic oil instead of ATF and you will have the best Force trim design out of them all.

regarding your gauge. pick the one that looks best on your dash and buy the sensors needed to make it work. They are all just a variable resistor hooked up to an ohmeter. The resistor spins as engine lifts and the gauge is re-calibrated to match that specific resistor (aka sensor). You can't mix and match between breeds so just pick the gauge you like best and get the rest to follow. If you don't care about looks of gauge then the mercury sensors are all over ebay for dirt cheap. Apparently they break a lot so there is a booming business in selling cheap replacements.

 

[XateEsix]

Re: Updating a trim tilt unit to support modern guages.

RRitt,

I must say my friend you rock!! I was pretty sure that was the case but its nice to hear from someone that it can be done.
Is it possible to replumb using brake line tools? Everything looks to be about the same as far fitting types and line sizes.
I am torn between Faria and Teleflex gauges right now. I think Faria are a little better quality but Teleflex has a design I really like alot.
And yes matching gauges does matter to me alot. Since I have to build a wiring harness and do all new gauges I want it to look professional.
When I am finished with the boat It would tickle me to no end if someone asked where I bought the boat thinking it was a new model/design.

Thanks again!
J

 

[RRitt]

Re: Updating a trim tilt unit to support modern guages.

Use 3/16" CuNi tubing (aka cunifer aka EZbend) with brass inverted flare nuts. Cuni is used on high end european cars exposed to a lot of road salt. I think brakequip is the only domestic supplier with significant dealer network. In salt water tests CuNi was actually found to be a better tubing than stainless. It does not galvanically attack other metals and the blue-green "sea slime" is actually a protective layer that inhibits corrosion.

 

[XateEsix]

Re: Updating a trim tilt unit to support modern guages.

RRitt,

Again thank you very much. I will be working on this in the near future as I have time. I will also be posting pictures and progress reports to this thread as I work through it so others might follow if they want to do the same.
It may seem a bit of overkill to some but to me its worth doing right.

J

 

[XateEsix]

Re: Updating a trim tilt unit to support modern guages.

RRitt,

I understand that I might become a bit of a bother but I have more questions.
I have attached diagrams of both the pivot brackets I have as well as the pump assembly.

When you mentioned new bracket(s) were you referring to the pivot brackets?
If so could I make a offset bracket to just raise the pump or do you have another set in mind?

I saw your website for rebuilt trim hardware. could you provide me a quote on both a full rebuild of pump and cylinders as well as the option of all of the parts required to do it myself. When it comes to the the pump motor it appears someone over tightened the bolts and cracked at least one shoulder.

Also I can find the "sensors" I believe you were referring to on ebay but I still can't figure out how they mount. Do you know where I could find a diagram or picture that shows one installed?

Thank you again.. and again.. and again...

J

 

[XateEsix]

Re: Updating a trim tilt unit to support modern guages.

oops forgot the pics....

 

[RRitt]

Re: Updating a trim tilt unit to support modern guages.

You want to use style 11A. Style 11 puts bottom of pump underwater. You want it to look like attached picture when finished. base of pump is above the waterline.
http://home.comcast.net/~netsvc/Images/Thumbnails/MF_S3E.jpg

The debris scrapers on top of your tilt ram and shock are proprietary and can not be replaced. The outer top seals on tilt/shock are metric. Other than those seals your cylinders are the same as all the other years. Check ebay for seal kits. They are like $25 and will fix 35-150HP trim/tilt/shock rams to be like new except for seals mentioned above.

When I buy cores off ebay I avoid systems with brackets attached. When the brackets are still attached it often means that the system is galvanically fused together. The correct way to pull a trim system is to pull the two shafts and drop it out the bottom. If it includes the brackets then I assume it is because the mounting shafts were seized. If there is substantial reasons to doubt that the anode was ever neglected or thast the boat may have ever been used in saltwater then I will consider cores with brackets. Otherwise, I figure that I'll end up sawing it in half just to get the pump off.