UH OH - I think I have an issue - pics inside..

[sincraft]

Greetings - sure many of you have seen my other threads about my little boat project, well it doesn't end just with the boat and the trailer..<br /><br />My engine is a mid 80's Mercury 9.9 that unfortunately sat outside in the cold for 2 years (freezing temperatures reach 0 here). I assumed it was stored in a basement where I left it but found out later it was placed on my boat where I stored it (brothers house). Needless to say, I finally wanted to do something with it and after many days..was able to get it started and running to the point it was when I purchased the boat used...kinda rough with the choke wide open...<br />Well - like everything in life, time passed and I didn't do much with it. I left it in my storage area that is semi-heated but during some of the REALLY cold nights I am afraid that maybe it got damaged. Luckily NOW I have ALOT of room in my very own basement and house - BUT alas..that's not my current problem..<br /><br />The issue: Before I went to work today on my transom, I figured I should verify the engine still works etc and didn't want to scratch up my new transom work while I pulled on my engine 1000 times. <br />Luckily, and much to my amazement, A spray of some carb cleaner - some fresh gas and she popped after the 3rd pull. I pulled about 10 more times and NOTHING. I waited a few mintues, pulled it ONE time and it started right up! I was pretty happy...but then it stalled in about 5 seconds.<br /><br />After several tugging sessions, I was able to get her running reliabily (seemingly even more than when I last used it) - but after about 20 seconds, I noticed something...<br />NO WATER COMING OUT!!!!!<br /><br />I immediately shut it down and looked all over the place. Underneath the fin and just above the prop is a metal grate where I BELIEVE the water comes in. I looked ALL over the shaft looking below the mark on the boat where the water line was left from previous scum..and found nothing else.<br /><br />SO I started it up again, and even popped it into drive for a nanosecond hoping I would see water shooting from the top...nothing.<br /><br />I shut it down, and my neighbor said he saw water coming out in a stream at the very bottom of the fin of the engine. There was grease throughout the water tub - and smoke was coming out all over the shaft wherever there were holes. NOT pouring out, but some smoke coming out , and even through the prop!!!! (I pulled it out of the water immediately after stopping it if that helps)<br /><br />I only ran if for about 10 - 20 second intervals and it's pretty windy and chilly here today so I hope that wasn't bad. I remember that not much water used to come out at first when I started this long ago, and until I actually started going forward, it didn't pour out fast and hard until then.<br /><br /><br />ALSO - when i squeezed the fuel bulb, I noticed fuel shooting from the side of a metal plate where there is a gasket. It's wierd however as the plate covers something that actually has a notch below it...that's where it is coming out..almost like a 'overfull' return or something? The picture doesn't show the notch under the plate, and it definetely looks machined and not damage, but I am wondering if this should be like this (which I doubt) or if it's just the gasket.<br /><br />Also - what am I looking at for possibilties with this water issue..is this bad and expensive?<br /><br />Thanks guys...again...to all...I appreciate it!<br /><br /> squirting fuel... <br /><br /> rear of engine...showing where water normally comes out.. <br /><br /> another photo..

 

[dajohnson53]

Re: UH OH - I think I have an issue - pics inside..

Generally storing in the cold doesn't hurt anything as long as the lower unit doesn't have water in it. I'm hoping you'll say you changed the lower unit oil before you put it into storage long ago, and that you replaced it again just now when you took it out of storage- and the oil still looked fresh and clean. If so, I can't think of anything that would be damaged by cold.<br /><br />Based on what you're saying, my guess is that you have a dirty or gummed up carburetor, a bad water pump and some other fairly simple issues related to old age and long storage. <br /><br />The squirting fuel thing. Is that the fuel line from the filter to the pump? Looks to me like there is a leak at the connection. Could be a loose hose clamp or maybe the hose is deteriorated. Replace the hose and clamp either way. Simple and cheap and basic maintenance.<br /><br /><br />Here's the list of what I'd do if this was my engine (I have done this with a couple of old 9.8's recently, and I'm no mechanic).<br /><br />Start with fresh gas+oil and a clean tank. Inspect all tank connections and fuel lines and bulb. Replace any parts that are deteriorated, clamps, etc. Make sure there's no air leaks. Use OEM bulb rather than aftermarket if you replace that. Inspect and clean fuel pick up screen inside tank.<br /><br />Remove prop - re-grease prop shaft, repair or replace prop is damaged.<br /><br />Inspect and replace lower unit oil. If there is signs of water that was in it during the storage period, I'd consider either doing a thorough inspection and seal job, or having a pro mechanic do it for me. Seals, in my understanding are a little more involved than the other things I'm listing here (which are all pretty simple and straight forward) and might require special tools -but I don't really know because I haven't done it. If you changed the oil before storage and it still looks good, I wouldn't worry unless it shows signs of water intrusion once you start running it in the water.<br /><br />Remove the lower unit (easy unless it's corroded in place) and replace water pump impeller and/or overhaul water pump. Fairly simple, cheap DIY project, if you have a good service manual (pref. a factory manual, but I did a similar job with a Seloc and it went well)., but also cheap for a shop to do - for example if they're doing anything else for you, you might have them do this. But pretty easy even for a beginner.<br /><br />Inside the engine compartment, replace fuel filter and fuel lines and clamps. Very simple and cheap.<br /><br />Remove and "overhaul" fuel pump. This is generally a very simple, cheap DIY project with the service manual and appropriate (cheap) rebuild kit. <br /><br />Remove, dismantle and clean (using soak method) the carburetor. Do at least a gasket kit, or a complete rebuild kit if cost isn't ridiculous or if the carb parts look in any way worn or damaged. I found this a little more "complex" but really pretty easy, very easy the second time. Had to be careful not to lose or break parts. Other than that no problem. Adjust carb according to manual or search on idle adjustment or such here in the IBoats forums.<br /><br />Replace spark plugs with the exact brand and type specified for your engine. If it says Champion, use Champion. If it says NGK, use NGK. Test spark with a "spark tester" (a $10 tool you can get it from Snap-on tool rep, easy to use). Search on spark test here for homemade alternatives and techniques. If you have a good spark in both, you're probably good to go, but if you don't you can then trace to which ignition component is bad - and replace accordingly. I had to replace a coil which is very simple and pretty cheap. <br /><br />Good luck and have fun.

 

[sincraft]

Re: UH OH - I think I have an issue - pics inside..

wow - looks like MUCH more work than I have time for lol. BUT I also dont have much green either so looks like I'll have to make time eh?<br /><br />Thanks for the reply - lengthy so I had to read it a couple times, and in short will say : NO I haven't changed any oil in the engine ever...never. I never knew you had to. I never received an owners manual when I purchased this boat used from an 80 year old guy that was forced to sell it because he got lost on his favorite lake (the wife made him sell it). He just handed me the keys to teh lock on the engine, signed the papers..took my money and suddenly I was a boater eheh. That said - what should I do first? I dont even know what a lower unit is...I assume its the unit that is on the lower end of the engine that holds the prop, shaft, and all the probably expensive stuff inside that I possibly need to replace?<br /><br />I'd assume the worst here, what is my worst case scenerio? I have the worlds worst luck (no really) so it's whatever the worst thing could be for me..<br /><br />S

 

[dajohnson53]

Re: UH OH - I think I have an issue - pics inside..

With the exception of overhauling the lower unit (but only if it shows signs of water), all the stuff I listed for a beginner (like me) would be an off and on weekend project (you'd be soaking the carb overnight probably) or a 1/2 hour or hour here and there totalling 5 - 10 hours total. There's the odd trip to get parts (again, most listed are pretty cheap, total $50 - $100 max depending on what you actually need), but most of them you can anticipate and buy ahead of time. Really, it seems like a lot, but each is no big deal. I'm speaking as someone who never did this sort of stuff until this spring. You need a service manual though.<br /><br />Based on my own limited personal experience, the worst case is water damage to the lower unit - either from corrosion from having never changed the oil to freeze damage if it was stored with water in it. It could result in an overhaul which is either kind of expensive (couple $hundred for a shop to do it) or replacement (a few $hundred - which you could easily do youreself after buying the replacement L/U). But that's jumping the gun. You need to buy a service manual, learn how to change the oil - look at the old oil and go from there.<br /><br />The other stuff might take a little time (5-10 hours total for a beginner, I'd guess), but probably no big deal. The water pump needs to be done before you run it - that's number one after looking at L/U oil. It is easy to overhaul. <br /><br />To get it running, the rough/difficult running probably is easy to fix by doing the simple spark plug and fuel related stuff including a carburetor cleaning and/or overhaul. If there are ignition problems, they are probably pretty easy to fix, and most parts are cheap, although sometimes certain major parts such as the switch box can get spendy.

 

[sincraft]

Re: UH OH - I think I have an issue - pics inside..

just wondering what 'signs of water' means.<br /><br />Like I said, I had water literally pouring out of the lower unit, and the very bottom, from a tiny little hole...the bucket turned filthy greasy...and NO water shot out of the side of the engine..<br /><br />What does that mean?

 

[dajohnson53]

Re: UH OH - I think I have an issue - pics inside..

signs of water - I was meaning when you drain the lower unit oil you'll see either plain old water -or more likely signs that water has mixed in with the oil. The oil would be cloudy rather than clear-ish or even foamy looking. Not the same color or consistency as new.

 

[sincraft]

Re: UH OH - I think I have an issue - pics inside..

OK then so water coming out from the lower unit, even the prop is NOT a bad thing? The water coming out of the prop was after I removed it from the water trough I had it in so I dont know if it came from 'cupping' inside there or if it actually ran out...it definetely was spewing out from a tiny hole underneath the 'fin' right above the prop, and like I said the it looked 'factory'.<br />There are also two clamps right below the engine itself that have 1/2" holes behind them, what they are for I dont know as no water comes in that way as it is above the water line, nor does it come out there...possibly just air..<br /><br />I will figure out where to get a book and hopefully get the best one there is for the money, then drop that unit and check the oil..like I said, never knew I had to check or change that. <br /><br />I'm seriously worried I am in way over my head here, and HATE troubleshooting when it comes to my money lol.