Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

[dollarart]

I bought a used 1984 245 Regal last week. It originally had a 305 V8 and the owner had it replaced 4 yrs ago with a 350....and it runs great !!! I am trying to find out what year it is so I can order a new starter for it. The starter that is in it sounds very loud with a high pitch sound when I start it and everyone that hears it says I am going to need a new starter and if I keep using that one it will ruin my flywheel and I am going to end up pulling the motor and putting a new flywheel on. So I have been all week trying to find the correct starter and there are several unless I can pin down the year of the motor. The owner I bought it from said that all he knows is that it has split rear mains ...which I have been told means it is a pre 1991 ???

I have searched the motor very carefully and cannot find a serial number above the starter as everyone tells me. The only numbers on the block are over the oil filter on the other side of the motor. The plate says: ECHO EN MEXICO ....and the number underneath that is: 10066036

Can anyone tell me what year it is or where I can look to reference this number ??

Also there it has the 14" flywheel and I am not sure if the starter is meshing correctly with it. I tried to take the numbers of the edge of the flywheel but cannot read them very well... I sanded and cleaned and oiled it ....used high strength magnifying glass and bright flashlight but I can only give an educated guess as to what it says: IED64 IG8S USA S but the letters may be numbers... I just can't tell. If the flywheel is not the right one then the number of teeth may also be my problem.

So, what seemed like a simple job of buying a new starter and putting it in has become a nightmare !!

I am stumped.... Help !!!

 

[Alpheus]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

Split or two piece rear main seal blocks were started in mid 1986. You can usually tell them by looking at the valve covers or the intake manifold bolts(If the heads are stock) If it has 4 bolts in the corners its a 2 piece main seal and if it has 4 bolts down the center it a 1 piece. How ever having said that your block is an exception to the rule. You have a GM Goodwrench crate engine that was made in the late 80's and 90's that has a 2 piece rear main seal. (Bastard Child) If you look for a starter for a Mercruiser from 1985 you will be safe. If you are looking for other general parts that you need from an automotive parts store just tell them its for a 1985 Caprice Classic or something along those lines.

If you want to know if you have a 12 3/4 flywheel or a 14 inch fly wheel and you cant flat out measure the OD, you can measure the crank flange bolt pattern (12 3/4 = 3 5/8 spacing) (14 = 3.00 spacing) or you can count the teeth. 12 3/4 = 153 teeth & 14 = 168 teeth.

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show...30&bdesc=STARTER+MOTOR+(USE+WITH+14"+FLYWHEEL)

 

[zbnutcase]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

The 3.58 (not 3 5/8!) and 3.00 bolt circles on crank only indicate wether flywheel fits a one piece seal or two piece seal engine. NOT FLYWHEEL DIAMETER as both sizes have been made for the 2 bolt patterns. If starter has bolt holes stright in line its a small flywheel, if starter has staggered bolts its a large flywheel

 

[Alpheus]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

No No No!!! Im right and your wrong!!!







OK, I was wrong...

But I got the tooth count right at least...

 

[dollarart]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

Split or two piece rear main seal blocks were started in mid 1986. You can usually tell them by looking at the valve covers or the intake manifold bolts(If the heads are stock) If it has 4 bolts in the corners its a 2 piece main seal and if it has 4 bolts down the center it a 1 piece. How ever having said that your block is an exception to the rule. You have a GM Goodwrench crate engine that was made in the late 80's and 90's that has a 2 piece rear main seal. (Bastard Child) If you look for a starter for a Mercruiser from 1985 you will be safe. If you are looking for other general parts that you need from an automotive parts store just tell them its for a 1985 Caprice Classic or something along those lines.

If you want to know if you have a 12 3/4 flywheel or a 14 inch fly wheel and you cant flat out measure the OD, you can measure the crank flange bolt pattern (12 3/4 = 3 5/8 spacing) (14 = 3.00 spacing) or you can count the teeth. 12 3/4 = 153 teeth & 14 = 168 teeth.

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show...30&bdesc=STARTER+MOTOR+(USE+WITH+14"+FLYWHEEL)

Alpheus, Thank You.... when I researched the starter number you gave me it looks like that number (50-863007A1) is the same from 1982 through at least 1997 with 14" flywheel so I will order one and see where it takes me. The only thing I can figure is if the owner used the starter from the original 305 V8 that it may have had a 12.75" flywheel in it and that is why this one doesn't seem to seat correctly in the teeth. Am I right in this thought ?? It makes too much noise to ignore and I don't want to ruin the flywheel and have to pull the motor.

I amk assuming all that noise is coming from the teeth not seating properly ???

You have really helped me out and I thank you...any more thoghts, please post for me.

Art

 

[dollarart]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

No No No!!! Im right and your wrong!!!







OK, I was wrong...

But I got the tooth count right at least...

1 out of 2 isn't bad !!! LOL

Art

 

[dollarart]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

The 3.58 (not 3 5/8!) and 3.00 bolt circles on crank only indicate wether flywheel fits a one piece seal or two piece seal engine. NOT FLYWHEEL DIAMETER as both sizes have been made for the 2 bolt patterns. If starter has bolt holes stright in line its a small flywheel, if starter has staggered bolts its a large flywheel

zbnutcase,

I am not going to pull the motor to check the bolt pattern, or at least I hope I am not pulling the motor !! But, I will record your info for future use just in case !!!

The starter I have is the staggered bolt holes (both long bolts) so it does sound like the right one. A friend of mine that works with boat motors gave me one to try....same bolt pattern...and it made the same noise !!

So, is it possible I have 2 bad starters ?? I don't know that either one of them is in great shape or their history. The one my friend gave me worked the first time and started the motor (but it howled also) and then the next time I tried to start the motor the starter just spun...it wouldn't engage.

So, I thought it might be the slave selenoid and began looking for other breakdowns. The slave selenoid was working properly and I am getting a good 12 volts to the starter. So I connected a remote starter switch directly to the starter and it just spun again. So I took that starter out. I didn't put the original starter back in because I felt that was useless at this point.

I started to look at starters and came up with all kinds of part numbers, so then I tried to get a serial number off the engine and that failed as I explained and I only came up with the Hecho En Mexico number .... so that brings you up to date. Alpheus's post was great and started me on a path to what starter I actually need to order and that, I think, is the best thing for me to do. Then I know I am working with decent parts !!

I got a great deal on the boat...it is clean and in great shape....motor runs great..... it's tied up to my dock in my back yard.....it is 4th of July weekend and I Just Can't Start It !!!!! So any more thoughts or suggestions would really be appreciated. Thank you for your input.

Art

 

[Alpheus]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

You dont have to pull the engine to find out what size flywheel you have.

If you think you have the wrong starter, put some paint on one of the teeth on your flywheel and start counting...



Are the teeth on the flywheel still there?

Is the engine able to be turned over by hand?

Was the starter shimmed?

When the starter is engaged is it turning the engine over at all?

 

[boat127]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

never use an automotive starter in a boat

 

[dollarart]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

Alpheus,

I thought it was great to get a motor running great that the owner had put in....now I wish it was original so I don't have to try to figure out what he did !!!!

Are the teeth on the flywheel still there? Yes, they are ...I am afraid to keep grinding the starter and lose them !!!

Is the engine able to be turned over by hand? Yes.....and I have checked all the teeth ...but I have not actually counted them. The flywheel takes up the whole bellhousing so there would not be room for a larger one and I understand the bellhousings are all the same size. Also, my mechanic friend feels it is definately a 14" also. When I called the owner to ask he said he had a 12.75" and a 14" flywheel in his garage and doesn't remember which one he put on....so while I was on the phone with him he went out in his garage and has the 12.75" one there....so he assumes he put the 14" on. But he doesn't remember which one was on the 84 228 5.0 he took out of the boat and the starter, he thinks is the same oine from that !!

Was the starter shimmed? There was not a shim when I took it off, and again, the owner doesn't remember !!! I am wondering if maybe the old one had the 12.75 and now I need a shim ?? I tried looking on line for any info I could find on shims....buying one, why I might need one, etc....and found nothing..... so I don't know if I need a shim or not and why ?? BUt that is the first thing everyone asks.

When the starter is engaged is it turning the engine over at all? When it engages, it turns the motor over fine....but sometimes it doesn't engage and just spins with that same high pitch whining ringing noise. When I put the other starter in that my mechanic friend gave me to try, it did the same thing. The first time it turned it over and started it and then all attempts afterwards it just spinned.....so I took it out before I ruined something.

It is not a car starter, so that is one thing out of the way !!!

With all the info you have given me ( which is GREAT) I think the motor is 86 to 95 and that brought my starter choices with that year spread, 14" flywheel, staggered long bolts ...down to one choice. My thought is to order that starter tomorrow (closed for the holiday today) and put it on and see what it does. If the new one just spins then I think I might need a shim....because the spinning sounds like it is hitting the flywheel but not grabboing into the teeth and a shim may move it enough to let it slide into the teeth. That may be my problem but I can only get there by process of elimination. And then if I do....where do I get a shim ???? and what shim might I need ???

I am a pretty detailed guy and getting a motor that no one knows anything about ios frustrating !!!! But I am sure once I get it figured out I will be ok. I can't thank everyone for all this help enough !!

 

[dollarart]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

Alpheus,

I assume the drawing in your last response is the bolt pattern for the starter. If so, yes that is the bolt pattern I am using for the 14" flywheel. The starter that was in the boat, the owner "thinks" was the one from the 84 5.0 he took out. In all the new starter listings the 14" starter for 1977 to 1986 is one number and the starter for 1987 to 1995 is another. The one you suggested as the right starter in your first response is the one for 1987 to 1995 and I agree that that is correct the starter....and it is the one I am ordering tomorrow !!!

When I originally posted, I had no clue what year the motor was or for sure the size of the flywheel, so I was just looking at about 6 possible starters and did not know where to start !!! So, we are getting there !!!!!

Art

 

[Bondo]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

Ayuh,... You're makin' this Way more complicated than it is,... The Vintage is Irrevelant.....
Chevy's use only 1 of 2 starters...
Straight across bolt pattern for the 12" flywheel,+ Staggered pattern for the 14" flywheel...
Whichever 1 you need,... Shouldn't need shimmin', at All...
What it does need is Full battery power, as in Clean connections,+ quality wire...

 

[zbnutcase]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

Ayuh,... You're makin' this Way more complicated than it is,... The Vintage is Irrevelant.....
Chevy's use only 1 of 2 starters...
Straight across bolt pattern for the 12" flywheel,+ Staggered pattern for the 14" flywheel...
Whichever 1 you need,... Shouldn't need shimmin', at All...
What it does need is Full battery power, as in Clean connections,+ quality wire...

And a good ring gear

 

[Blk-n-Blu]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

New starter bolts are probably in order as well. IMHO

 

[dollarart]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

I got new starter bolts..... my mechanic friend had them on his sale shelf !!

I bought 2 new batteries and they are at full charge. 1 - 750 cranking amps and 1 500 cranking amps and deep cycle. I put in a new battery switcher and all cables are good. I am trying the starter with each battery individually and then in "all" to see if there is any difference there.

I am getting a solid 12 volts at the starter..... and to bypass the slave selenoid (which is working) and key switch I am using a remote starter switch at the starter..... and have been switching back and forth with that and the keyswitch !! Each time I try it I do all combinations to try to find a "weak spot".

From all of your input, I think I have 2 bum starters in my possession and will order the new one tomorrow. Alpheus suggests this one:

http://www.mercruiserparts.com/Show_...14"+FLYWHEEL

And I agree and will order it tomorrow.... does everyone else agree ???

I don't think I ever had an issue like this or the headache I am getting from this one !!!!!

Thanks You everyone.......and I WILL let you know how I make out.

 

[dollarart]

Re: Trying to find year for 350 GM Mercruiser

Hi and Thanks to everyone for their input. I now know the year (range) of the motor and the correct starter.

I ordered the starter Alpheus suggested and received it Tuesday. Put it in Wednesday....and it works GREAT !!!

I am not sure what was wrong with the other starters but I got rid of them.

If it had not been for this forum, my mechanic would have had the motor out and who knows what other issues would have come up from that.

Thanks Again,

Art