Trim Trim Trim

[jarruiz13]

So I have a project boat 1972 Allmand 22', It contains a Ford 302 and its proper trim pump, I have been issue with the overall trim, I can get it up when I jump the cables, but trying to bring it down has been an issue. I have check the level of the oil. I know the solenoid is a huge issue so I have order two solenoid rather the original one solenoid. But what can cause this? Can I remove the sender assembly? Is it an issue with the reverse lock valve? I removed the return line and it still did not go down. So I removed both lines from the cylinder and oil came goosing out and the cylinder went back to down? What can be the cause of this? I am getting tired of all this and about the lite the whole boat on fire, still haven't gotten the time to come around if the motor will start. Original owner passed away and it was stored for seven years. Was able to move the piston, so hopefully I can get everything going, the boat is in great shape its all the mechanical issue right now?

 

[fishrdan]

What are you working on, Mercruiser, OMC, Volvo? Also, providing serial numbers will help.

 

[jarruiz13]

Its a Mercruiser. Im gonna have to see this weekend at the storage for the model number.

 

[Bondo]

So I have a project boat 1972 Allmand 22', It contains a Ford 302 and its proper trim pump, I have been issue with the overall trim,

I can get it up when I jump the cables, but trying to bring it down has been an issue. I have check the level of the oil.

I know the solenoid is a huge issue so I have order two solenoid rather the original one solenoid.
But what can cause this?
Can I remove the sender assembly?
Is it an issue with the reverse lock valve?
I removed the return line and it still did not go down. So I removed both lines from the cylinder and oil came goosing out and the cylinder went back to down?
What can be the cause of this?

I am getting tired of all this and about the lite the whole boat on fire, still haven't gotten the time to come around if the motor will start. Original owner passed away and it was stored for seven years. Was able to move the piston, so hopefully I can get everything going, the boat is in great shape its all the mechanical issue right now?

Ayuh,.... I'd think you oughta get the motor runnin' Before ya blow mountains of money on all the accessories,...

You haven't said what works or what don't,....

If ya got a single solenoid pump, Why would ya buy 2 solenoids,..??

Have you used a Test Light, or Multimeter to see where ya got power, 'n where ya don't,..??

Odds are, there's corroded wirin' terminals in the circuits,...
Do some Testin', insteada just throwin' parts at it,....

If ya go to Don'S Adults Only section, in there are the Mercruiser links, where you'll find a link to the factory manuals,....
The trim pump circuits are all in there,...

Can the trim sender/ reverse lock be the issue,.... Of course it can, but you've tested nothing,....

If ya unhook it, the trim gauge won't work, 'n when ya shift to reverse, the drive will jump up, resultin' in no reverse power,...

The reverse lock will lock the drive down in reverse,...
It should be an open hyd. circuit with the controller in Forward,...

The trim gauge sender just varies the ground path to the gauge,...
Nothin' really stoppin' the hyd.s from movin',....

The best Update, would be to put in 1 of the newest trim pumps, deletein' everything from the hyd. manifold back to the trim pump,...
That'll do away with the reverse lock, trim sender, 'n the related hyd. lines,....
The newest pumps have a built in reverse lock,... You'd loose the trim sender, all together though,....

 

[jarruiz13]

I have tested the trim pump is getting power the solenoid is not corresponding with my trim switch. Whenever I press the buttons at my trim pump the motor only runs but nothing else. My boat does not have a trim gauge, so that had me off in regards of all the rest of the components. Therefore I took the opportunity to look forward into this forum for further assistance. I have my own manual book that I purchased off this website few months back, the reason I was going to go forward with two solenoid rather with one, is because the availability for one solenoid was difficult for me to locate. So I took the route two put two solenoid together, so far that is working well, and its making a marvelous job. I am trying to get the job done, this week I will be working on the motor as I don't have a battery to help me start the motor, jump starting as not been a great help. As well I have replaced the starter and the solenoid starter. It turns the engine barely, because of the low power. Once I get the battery I will be able to assist this issue correctly. Thank you for your help.

 

[jarruiz13]

Can the trim sender/ reverse lock be the issue,.... Of course it can, but you've tested nothing,....

If ya unhook it, the trim gauge won't work, 'n when ya shift to reverse, the drive will jump up, resultin' in no reverse power,...

The reverse lock will lock the drive down in reverse,...
It should be an open hyd. circuit with the controller in Forward,...

The trim gauge sender just varies the ground path to the gauge,...
Nothin' really stoppin' the hyd.s from movin',....

The best Update, would be to put in 1 of the newest trim pumps, deletein' everything from the hyd. manifold back to the trim pump,...
That'll do away with the reverse lock, trim sender, 'n the related hyd. lines,....
The newest pumps have a built in reverse lock,... You'd loose the trim sender, all together though,....

As well I revised the reverse lock area and the key components that supposedly come connected to the trim pump. The switches wires have been cut, so somewhere in this whole mess previous owners have done a mickey mouse, so I am trying to figure things out before I proceed any further. As removing the return hose on the trim is suppose to help me relieve pressure helping the hydraulic go back to its original collapse form. and as stated that was a negative feed back and got me lost in the whole transaction.

 

[achris]

So I have a project boat 1972 Allmand 22', It contains a Ford 302 and its proper trim pump, I have been issue with the overall trim, I can get it up when I jump the cables

please describe, in detail, how you are doing this.

but trying to bring it down has been an issue.

What sort of issue? Does the pump not run?, or run in the wrong direction? or is the pump running, in the right direction, but the drive not lowering?

I have check the level of the oil.

The process of checking the oil level is quite specific, how have you checked it?

I know the solenoid is a huge issue

No, it's not...

so I have order two solenoid rather the original one solenoid.

What, 2 of the same as the original, or 2 different ones?

But what can cause this? Can I remove the sender assembly? Is it an issue with the reverse lock valve?

Do you have a hydraulic and electrical schematic of what you're working on? If not, ask for them as there is no way you'll troubleshoot and fix any problems unless you have either an in-depth knowledge of exactly how the system works, or the diagrams.

I removed the return line and it still did not go down.

Where? At the pump, at the reverse lock valve, at the manifold?

So I removed both lines from the cylinder and oil came goosing out and the cylinder went back to down?

That's the first useful statement... We now know the cylinders aren't seized.

What can be the cause of this?

Still don't know if it's an electrical or hydraulic problem...

I am getting tired of all this and about the lite the whole boat on fire,

Yep, very adult-like behaviour...

still haven't gotten the time to come around if the motor will start.

In which case, why are you playing with the peripherals?

Original owner passed away and it was stored for seven years. Was able to move the piston, so hopefully I can get everything going, the boat is in great shape its all the mechanical issue right now?

A single piston? You have more problems than you realise :facepalm:! And your trim is not a mechanical issue. It's either electrical or hydraulic, but not mechanical....

Chris........

 

[jarruiz13]

please describe, in detail, how you are doing this.



What sort of issue? Does the pump not run?, or run in the wrong direction? or is the pump running, in the right direction, but the drive not lowering?



The process of checking the oil level is quite specific, how have you checked it?



No, it's not...



What, 2 of the same as the original, or 2 different ones?



Do you have a hydraulic and electrical schematic of what you're working on? If not, ask for them as there is no way you'll troubleshoot and fix any problems unless you have either an in-depth knowledge of exactly how the system works, or the diagrams.



Where? At the pump, at the reverse lock valve, at the manifold?



That's the first useful statement... We now know the cylinders aren't seized.



Still don't know if it's an electrical or hydraulic problem...



Yep, very adult-like behaviour...



In which case, why are you playing with the peripherals?



A single piston? You have more problems than you realise :facepalm:! And your trim is not a mechanical issue. It's either electrical or hydraulic, but not mechanical....

Chris........

Chris,

First of all thank you for responding but I am not sure why my personality or a figure of speech has anything to do as being an adult. I am 24 years old, but at times we do get frustrated. Maybe the way I spoke out loud seem immature but the overall reason I am here is to gather some information to help me in this matter. I don't judge people in what they say but how they said it. Yeah I might have jumble tons of words but once again the principal of this matter is not about being an adult but the issue I am trying to overcome, once again its about my boat. Thank you once again for your time.


Back to your questions.

First question how am I doing what? I am using jumper cables to connect to the positive(red) and negative(black) cables to help me give power to my electrical devices.(the main cables of the boat that connects the primary battery) the boat has a mercruiser 302.

The motor pump runs but does not designate each function properly. So I used a small jumper cables, to help me give the positive to up so I can have my hydraulics go up on the stern drive and I continue this process as stated on the Mercruiser Repair Manual. So both of my hydraulics went up, but when I jump the cables for down, the unit itself does not go down. The pump is running in the right direction but its not going down.

I have check the level of the oil at the vent screw. I refilled to insure there was enough oil.

The solenoid being an issue was in regards of my trim switches.

two different solenoid I went ahead and used the secondary wiring function of the same mercruiser trim pump that was later updated around 1975. The reason one solenoid were use because it did not require much voltage to bring down the stern drive, but after doing some research it does not hurt having a two relay some modification but really simple.

I am working with the tons of schematic available online and as well here in previous forums but mostly I am referring to the schematic in my manual that iboats had for my boat.

I removed one line at a time, from the pump, to the trim sender, as well to the reverse lock valve. Manifold? I don't conclude there is a connection to any manifold on my boat, in regards of the trim pump.

Yes very much tired, I do own two boats, but just want to resolve this issue. That's the dramatic part I am having that is why I have referred to this forum.

"In which case, why are you playing with the peripherals?".......Very much saying is, projects boat are for fun and to lose time it does not matter where you start its a matter where you end.

I apologize about my grammar, I was referring to pistons. Jeez if I knew I was going to be judge for each word, I would have made sure each sentence was going to be up to iboats forum standard. I cannot believe how much criticism I have received in what I have typed rather the issues I am having, is it a Bad Tuesday?? Or is it I am not competent? I am trying and I am very sorry to those who feel that my issue is the one of the least important compare to my writing. wow.

 

[achris]

Chris,

First of all thank you for responding but I am not sure why my personality or a figure of speech has anything to do as being an adult. I am 24 years old, but at times we do get frustrated. Maybe the way I spoke out loud seem immature but the overall reason I am here is to gather some information to help me in this matter. I don't judge people in what they say but how they said it. Yeah I might have jumble tons of words but once again the principal of this matter is not about being an adult but the issue I am trying to overcome, once again its about my boat. Thank you once again for your time.

I'm sorry you found my comments less than the help you were looking for. As for the fire comment being a 'figure of speech', it's not one people in my line of work take as a joke. It usually sees that person sent home, never to return to that worksite.

And yes, the jumble of words can sometimes be a little daunting to sort through.

Back to your questions.

First question how am I doing what? I am using jumper cables to connect to the positive(red) and negative(black) cables to help me give power to my electrical devices.(the main cables of the boat that connects the primary battery) the boat has a mercruiser 302.

Why not just use the cables intended for the job?

The motor pump runs but does not designate each function properly. So I used a small jumper cables, to help me give the positive to up so I can have my hydraulics go up on the stern drive and I continue this process as stated on the Mercruiser Repair Manual.

I do need to ask which service manaul, as there is only one genuine manual, but a few 'wannbes'... You need to make sure you have the genuine manual.

So both of my hydraulics went up, but when I jump the cables for down, the unit itself does not go down. The pump is running in the right direction but its not going down.

So, not an electrical problem. And as we already know the cylinders are not seized that would point to a hydraulic problem somewhere. Have you checked the adjustment of the reverse lock valve?

I have check the level of the oil at the vent screw. I refilled to insure there was enough oil.

With the drive in the DOWN position I assume.

The solenoid being an issue was in regards of my trim switches.

As I already said, the standard setup as supplied by Mercury is not an issue. As the pump motor load is highest when the pump is trying to push the drive UP, that circuit uses a solenoid as a switch. The DOWN circuit uses much less current, so has the full motor current running through the dash panel switches. Its worked for many years without issue. The dual solenoid system was introduced with the Oildyne pumps, which use slightly higher current in both directions. The harness couldn't handle the higher current for the DOWN circuit, so the extra solenoid was added. If you still have the Prestolite pump you don't need the second solenoid.

two different solenoid I went ahead and used the secondary wiring function of the same mercruiser trim pump that was later updated around 1975. The reason one solenoid were use because it did not require much voltage to bring down the stern drive, but after doing some research it does not hurt having a two relay some modification but really simple.

Be careful with modifications like that. As much as they seem like a good idea at the time, they can come back to bite us in the future. Unless it's properly documented and when you need help with that particular system you need to be sure everybody knows exactly what has been modified or the suggests will be of no value as they will assume the system is 'by the book' standard.

I am working with the tons of schematic available online and as well here in previous forums but mostly I am referring to the schematic in my manual that iboats had for my boat.

I removed one line at a time, from the pump, to the trim sender, as well to the reverse lock valve. Manifold? I don't conclude there is a connection to any manifold on my boat, in regards of the trim pump.

There is a small hydraulic manifold located to the base of the gimbal housing. The 2 hoses from the pump come in and the 4 hoses (2 to each cylinder) go out.

Yes very much tired, I do own two boats, but just want to resolve this issue. That's the dramatic part I am having that is why I have referred to this forum.

"In which case, why are you playing with the peripherals?".......Very much saying is, projects boat are for fun and to lose time it does not matter where you start its a matter where you end.

The tone of your post did not indicate you were having 'fun'.

I apologize about my grammar, I was referring to pistons. Jeez if I knew I was going to be judge for each word, I would have made sure each sentence was going to be up to iboats forum standard. I cannot believe how much criticism I have received in what I have typed rather the issues I am having, is it a Bad Tuesday?? Or is it I am not competent? I am trying and I am very sorry to those who feel that my issue is the one of the least important compare to my writing. wow.

In a normal conversational forum I would not be bothered by small grammatical or spelling mistakes. But in a technical forum the smallest 'error' can completely change the context of the statement. Even the placement, or not, of a comma can have devastating consequences.

Just as a silly example, but it does demonstrate what I'm getting at....

Let's eat grandma...

is so very different to

Let's eat, grandma..

Hope this helps.

Chris.......

EDIT: Just read an interesting news story, with relevance to this thread (ie. the importance of getting grammar and spelling correct) http://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...pany-taylor-sons/story-fnda1bsz-1227199567162

 

[jarruiz13]

I'm sorry you found my comments less than the help you were looking for. As for the fire comment being a 'figure of speech', it's not one people in my line of work take as a joke. It usually sees that person sent home, never to return to that worksite.

And yes, the jumble of words can sometimes be a little daunting to sort through.



Why not just use the cables intended for the job?



I do need to ask which service manaul, as there is only one genuine manual, but a few 'wannbes'... You need to make sure you have the genuine manual.



So, not an electrical problem. And as we already know the cylinders are not seized that would point to a hydraulic problem somewhere. Have you checked the adjustment of the reverse lock valve?



With the drive in the DOWN position I assume.



As I already said, the standard setup as supplied by Mercury is not an issue. As the pump motor load is highest when the pump is trying to push the drive UP, that circuit uses a solenoid as a switch. The DOWN circuit uses much less current, so has the full motor current running through the dash panel switches. Its worked for many years without issue. The dual solenoid system was introduced with the Oildyne pumps, which use slightly higher current in both directions. The harness couldn't handle the higher current for the DOWN circuit, so the extra solenoid was added. If you still have the Prestolite pump you don't need the second solenoid.



Be careful with modifications like that. As much as they seem like a good idea at the time, they can come back to bite us in the future. Unless it's properly documented and when you need help with that particular system you need to be sure everybody knows exactly what has been modified or the suggests will be of no value as they will assume the system is 'by the book' standard.



There is a small hydraulic manifold located to the base of the gimbal housing. The 2 hoses from the pump come in and the 4 hoses (2 to each cylinder) go out.



The tone of your post did not indicate you were having 'fun'.



In a normal conversational forum I would not be bothered by small grammatical or spelling mistakes. But in a technical forum the smallest 'error' can completely change the context of the statement. Even the placement, or not, of a comma can have devastating consequences.

Just as a silly example, but it does demonstrate what I'm getting at....



is so very different to



Hope this helps.

Chris.......

EDIT: Just read an interesting news story, with relevance to this thread (ie. the importance of getting grammar and spelling correct) http://www.news.com.au/finance/busi...pany-taylor-sons/story-fnda1bsz-1227199567162

I do see your concept, I have done simple research in the past well. I do have a degree, I am a manager of 15 employees. I do see where you are coming from, but in matter of a forum, its suppose to be place where people unite to help each other, if we were suppose to be in the degree of being serious at all given time many people would not put there life inputs. I do understand the smallest factor can give issues, just as to your article and many previous incident that have occur because someone took the privilege to change the small wording in a paper causing the company thousands of dollar as well. But once again we are not debating politics or English standard language, we are back to the simple problem I have. I do see you are very clinching to the simple task, and I am grateful you are taking the time to communicate this to me. I will watch in the way I communicate with you and the matter will change overtime, but we need to understand as well is to help someone is not about making fun of them or downgrading them. Simple matter "Hey I see your point but please careful how you input your opinion, if you are asking for help, some of us can get offensive" that statement can change a person view. Thank you. Your concept can change many people so keep your values high.

The manual I have is Mercruiser Stern Drives 1964-1991 Repair Manual Powered by Ford or GM 4 Cylinder, Inline 6, V6, V8 - Seloc

http://www.iboats.com/Mercruiser-St...01053959--session_id.213560983--view_id.55662


I will come back to this thread this weekend, I keep my boat at a storage closer to my other home. My work home is a small location no space to work at. Keep you updated.

 

[achris]

I guess we do read from the same scripture after all...

Seloc is a 'wannabe' (and full of errors)... Find a convenient place in the trashcan for it...



Chris.........

 

[jarruiz13]

I guess we do read from the same scripture after all...

Seloc is a 'wannabe' (and full of errors)... Find a convenient place in the trashcan for it...


Chris.........

Thank you so much, I have began to read the manual. Its much clearer but like the detail among each step. I will keep you posted.

Javier A. Ruiz