Trim Tabs or Hydrofoil

[PAkev]

Reading a few other posts I have been compelled to ask a question I have been pondering for a while. <br /><br />Other than my 10 hp tiller on a smokercraft, I am new to the bells and whistles of modern powerboating.<br />Within the next year I will be purchasing a boat for fishing 75% of the time and pulling the kiddies around on a tube the other 25%. Kids are 6, 4, and 3 so as they grow and perhaps bring a friend along, we will indeed find ourselves with more weight to push through the water.<br />I plan to purchase a 19ft Polar center console. The boat is rated at 150 max HP and comes with standard power of 115hp. I am optomistic to see a few more alternatives in the mid range 4 stroke arena when I am ready to purchase and would like to go a little beyond the standard power package for the reasons previously mentioned. <br />According to the specs. I estimate the boat to weigh around 1500 to 2000 depending on fuel, passengers, equipment, etc. The manufacturer lists trim tabs as an option which I have been considering when ordering the boat so that I have one less backyard project a year or two down the road. However a boat guru friend told me the center console design inherently keeps things fairly balanced. I am wondering if a hydrofoil would be a compromise or do they accomplish different objectives. I guess my next question is if both are used in order to maximize performance. <br />I can currently get a Honda 4stroke 130 HP which is around 500 lbs hanging on the transom. Since this is a few more pounds than conventional 2 strokes, I am thinking about the trim tabs option.<br /><br />Helpful advice appreciated.<br />Kevin

 

[Sivart]

Re: Trim Tabs or Hydrofoil

PAkev,<br />I installed the trim tabs on my boat to help with a porpiosing problem. They did not 100%cure the problem but they did make the boat a better handling boat. Sharp turns, getting on plane, and even stopping.( The boat actually stops level now) No more water coming in the back of the boat!<br />I did contact the manufacturer of the trim tabs and they informed me not to use a hydrofoil with the tabs. They said that they work against each other. I do not know this first hand because I have not tried both at the same time. I have not regreted installing the tabs at all!

 

[Solittle]

Re: Trim Tabs or Hydrofoil

I should be an expert on this but I'm not. I have a 23' CC with twins with trim & tilt. I have fins on both motors and hydralic tabs. They do not work against each other and give you maximum flexibility in settings for whatever load under whatever condition. I would recommend this set-up.<br /><br />The only downside is all this flexibility. Say I have a fair load, out on a windy day with moderate to heavy chop. As I head out from the ramp I setup with the best settings to get you on a plane. Off we go --------- now we are up and I reset trim (both engines & tabs)for load, trim, wind etc. etc . Now to settle down for the trip accross the bay ----------- Not so as someone on board wants me to slow down for a moment or two. Down off the plane & now got to reset the stuff for getting back up on plane.<br /><br />And so it goes-

 

[Dan180cc]

Re: Trim Tabs or Hydrofoil

PAkev,<br /><br /> The setup you are talking about sounds real<br />nice. I just purchased a Sea_Pro 18 foot center console with a Johnson 140 4 stroke. I did have a porpoising problem but thanks to a good dealer and good advise from a lot of folks here I didnt have to drill any holes in anything. I read everything I could find on boats and motors before I purchased what I bought and Im glad I did. On the topic of engines, I talked to several of the after market extended warrenty providers (pinnical) is mine and they all but 1 told me the same thing on motor recomendations. Go 4 stroke and go with the brand that has the most dealerships in your area this will help you get the best price. On boats the choice is a little harder to make. Several good brands out there,<br />Polar is one of them but they are a little rough on the inside. For me Sea-Pro was available in my area and had the best construction and finish for<br />the price of anything around here. Their standard equipment and warrenty is top knotch also.<br />Lots of spec's out there online. A side note,<br />The Honda is Heavy!! The Johnson(suzuki) 140 comes in close to several 2-stroke 150's.<br /><br />Good Luck Dan

 

[PAkev]

Re: Trim Tabs or Hydrofoil

Dan,<br /><br />What weight does the 140 Suzuki-Johnnyrude 4 stroke come in at?<br /><br />The 140 is still an option but I had a bad experience with a bomardier motor on a snowmobile a few years back which has made me a little skeptical about making a substantial investment associated with their name. Other than that, I will probably take another look at them before making a decision and may even buy one if I have enough compelling reasons.<br /><br />As far as the boat goes, hardly no dealers in my area stock center consoles and therefore it will be a special order. I know I could probably buy the boat for less if I want to drive south for 2 days as per laws of supply and demand but I would also like to put a value on the service needs from a fairly local dealer.<br /><br />Currently I have a quote but have not done any ****ering on price. I assume they allow for a little negotiating leverage but want to know exactly what I want and need so I dont give the impression of being a "tire kicker" I'd sure like to have an idea of what a competitive rig such as yours goes for if you don't mind shooting me an email.

 

[Arnold96]

Re: Trim Tabs or Hydrofoil

As for the trim tabs vs hydrofoil you can try my solution and see if it works for you. I found the Sting Ray for $25 at Bass Pro, I needed something so I said what the heck. In 10 mins. I had the thing on (crooked I might add), and was amazed at the difference it made. $25 and 10 mins. is a lot cheaper/quicker than trim tabs and I only have one thing to fool with. Light chop ride is amazing.

 

[Dan180cc]

Re: Trim Tabs or Hydrofoil

PAkev,<br /><br /> The weight of the 4 stroke 140 Johnson comes in at 410 lbs. Which is only 90 lbs heavier than the standard 90 hp 2 stroke. Some of the other 4 stokes get close to 500 lbs. Weight, service depenablity and price are always big considerations. The upgrade to a 140 4 stroke from a 90 2 stroke cost me 1500 dollars. I did a lot of homework on boats and motors and when I was finished I noticed several several of the most reliable sources gave me the same advice, If you are going to upgrade anything always spend it on the motor, It,s better to go with a high quality motor and a midrange boat of whichever combo you decide on. The whole rig is not much good if it,s not dependable. My rig came in at 18k after rebates. The dealer I got my rig from got me a 6 year extended warrenty which goes to 2009. A good dealer is a must they came handle almost any problem that comes up from rigging and setup. The old guys dont like 4 strokes much they dont know much about them and dont want to learn anything new. The newer shops love them. with the ECM electronics they tell you so much they are easy to diagnose. There is not a bad one in the whole bunch. Whatever you buy get good insurance, things seem to happen to good people on the water when they get mixed in with the crowd. good luck Dan

 

[PAkev]

Re: Trim Tabs or Hydrofoil

Dan,<br /><br />Thanks for the info. I am certain I want to put a 4 stroke on my new boat and the 140 Johnny will put me very close to max HP. I am shocked that your cost difference from a 90HP was only $1500 and it sounds like you got an overall good deal on your rig. <br /><br />This was my quote from a local dealer:<br />Boat (19ft Polar Deep V) powered with 115 HP Yamaha 4 stroke, bimini top, bow cushions, lighted recirculating livewell, second livewell, raw water washdown, swim ladder, single axle trailer w/ brakes, and a few other minor options which I believe don't cost the dealer a whole lot more. All for $23,000.<br /><br />I plan to upgrade to a tandem axle trailer since it will often be pulled at higher speeds on interstates and expect this upgrade to be somewhere between $500-$750.<br /><br />I noticed in the classified section a few of these new rigs selling between $17,500 and $19,500 but not sure of the options they are offering and then must add on the trailer. So in that case I believe it would take me up to $20 or $21K. I won't be bothered of going out of state and from the value of local service for a $1000 difference and be bothered with additional paperwork but may be compelled to do so for 2 or 3K. My game play is to walk into the dealer after the weather cools down up here (perhaps during a snowstorm) and try to negotiate somewhere between the figures I mentioned above.<br /><br />Kevin

 

[Dan180cc]

Re: Trim Tabs or Hydrofoil

PAkev,<br /><br /> Yea, I started out only wanting to repower my rig with a new 2 stroke, when I found out it was going to cost 6000 dollars I was givin a good quote on a trade in price for my old boat. I had them put in on paper and went home to do some homework on the boat and motors. I went to all the dealers around and compared prices. I did<br />want a Yamaha also but found them to be 900 more than the Johnson also th Johnson was offering a rebate of 600 which brought the price down to a 1500 upgrade. On the SEA-Pro check out there standard equipment list on there web site it list a lot of want you are wanting, Including Hydralic steering a big plus. By the way there is a dealer<br />in eastern NC I Know this dealership offering 2002 new Johnson 4 stroke engine for just 6900 on EBAY right now That a great deal on a new motor.<br />with a 3 year non declininng warrenty. I realllly like the fuel injection system on the new 4 strokes continuous power all the way through the throttle movement with no dead spots. no more 20 a gallon oil to buy or mix. No carbs to fool with. I was a 2 stroke person for 20 years but I am going 4 stroke 4 good. good luck Dan.

 

[PAkev]

Re: Trim Tabs or Hydrofoil

Ironically,<br /><br />I was at the dealer yesterday and they informed me Yamaha will debut a 150hp 4stroke by the end of summer for the 2004 model year. They couldn't quote me a price but I anticipate that the motor will also carry a premium since it is one of a kind in that horsepower range. While there, I also got a good look at the johnny 140 4 stroke and was mildly surprized since I thought it would be much larger in size. They addressed my comment by informing me the 140hp powerhead is the same as the 115hp with exception of the fuel injection system. Therefore, this perhaps explains the difference in the weight factor of the 140 Johnny compared to other 4 strokes in the current marketplace. It will be interesting to see if Yamaha follows the same concept with their 150HP design.<br /><br />Once I have a price on this power option, I will probably have a good idea of what will be hanging off the back end of my new boat.<br /><br />BTW, dealer advised ordering the boat without trim tabs and start with the hydrofoil solution if any significant porpoising problems occur. Besides I could use the extra money for a nice GPS/Sonar unit instead.<br /><br /> Kevin