Trim Pump help

golver

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
37
I know this is long, but trying to give all the history. I would apprecaite any help I can get. I am just about at wits end.<br /><br />PART 1<br />Here is a little history: <br />81 Wellcraft V20 Straight 6 140hp with Mercruiser<br />outdrive bought on ebay for $1000 in NJ last summer. <br /> <br />Boat has not been run yet. Mechanic was able to hand turn the motor and stated it look as good as it could, without running it. <br /> <br />Work done in last 8 months: <br />1. Removed both side panel gas tanks, inspected,<br />cleaned, and reinstalled. <br />2. New fuel water separator <br />3. New oil filter / oil change <br />4. New plugs <br />5. New anti-reverse switch <br />6. New Trim pump <br />7. Much new wiring <br />8. New fish finder <br />9. New radio <br />10. New radio antenna <br />11. New ignition switch <br />12. New Solenoids <br />13. Patched some "suspected" Hull dents and dings <br />14. Replaced entire wheel on trailer <br />15. New trailer lights <br />16. Replace all fuel lines <br />17. New bilge pump and wiring <br />18. New bilge blower and wiring <br />19. Clean nasty dirty bilge <br />20. Miscellaneous parts (bilge cover, tie down,<br />etc..) <br />21. Replaced dashboard with homemade. <br />Left to do: <br />1. Finish up some random wiring <br />2. Find frame for center windshield and side<br />windshield. <br />3. Wash and wax hull (more for protection then looks)<br />4. Paint bottom (even though trailered) <br />5. Replaced water pump (just in case)<br />6. change lower unit oil (once I figure out how)<br /> <br />Typed out it it doesn't seem as much work as it felt like trying to get it all done. LOL <br /> <br />So finally to my question. I replaced the trim pump, but it is wired slightly different then the one it replaced. Off the top of this one are 2 black wires that come off a bolt of a bracket that holds the solenoid on. I assume they are some sort of ground. Can someone tell me where they go? Is this where the ground to something else attaches or are these grounds for the pump, if they are grounds at all? <br /> <br />PART 2<br />Last night I put the trim pump in with the following results: <br /> <br />1. I put the switch on the dash. <br />2. I ran the wiring harness to the back. <br />3. Plugged the red plug into the front of the pump. <br />4. The was a purple and blue wire with connectors on them, I connected those to the connectors in my boat that matched. <br />5. I left the black wires unattached (they appear to be a ground for something else??) and did not top off the fluid yet though. There is fluid in it. <br />6. I connected the red wire to the "+" on the battery and the black wire to the "-" on the battery. <br /> <br />Here is what it does. When I hit the bottom button on the switch panel, the pump will make a sound like it is working, but the out drive does not move at all. <br />The outdrive is currently in the up position. <br />The top and the middle button don't do anything at<br />all. No noise, no outdrive movement, nothing. <br /><br />I attached a wiring diagram, picture of the boat, and a picture of the trim pump with the "mystery wires" pointed out.<br /> <br />What have I done wrong? What else can I check? Where do I go from here. <br /> <br />
WellcraftWireSchematiccopy.jpg
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c5_1_b.jpg
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58_1.jpg
 

golver

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
37
Re: Trim Pump help

Did I put to much info? Need some help please. My post is falling to the bottom quickly.
 

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: Trim Pump help

i have looked at it but it appears to have only one solenoid and i have never worked on one like that<br /><br /><br />give it some time everybodys at work <br /><br />have you really done all that work and NOT run the motor yet :eek: <br /><br />tommays
 

Trent

Captain
Joined
Nov 17, 2001
Messages
3,333
Re: Trim Pump help

To raise drive completly you have to push both the middle and the top button at the same time. Are you doing that? When the drive is down....Push the middle button only and it will raise the drive till the trim limit stops it. Make sure the drive is not just stuck. Remove the trim rams and see if the drive will move up and down. Try the trim pump and see if the rams move.
 

golver

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
37
Re: Trim Pump help

I did. I was told because of the angle the outdrive was at that I took the chance of breaking a very exspensive "gimble" or something if I ran the motor. I was told I needed to lower the outdrive before starting the motor. <br /><br />Since the trim has always been on the verge of working, we wanted everything else ready. That way when the day comes, we would be ready to go.<br /><br />Before I bought the boat the carb was rebuilt and a compression check done on the motor. Both appear to be ok. The seller offer to take it down to the boat yard to have them de-winterize it for us and run the motor before we picked it up. Due to time constraints at the time, we could not. I had an mechanic take a look at the motor later. He said without starting it, it looked ok, but could not tell before starting it. He was able to hand crank it and did not see any leakage from anywhere.<br /><br />If the motor is not good, though I feel ok that it is, we will just repair it. The previous owner was a good guy.<br /><br />Just wish I could figure out why a lower unit that only moves up and down has a 3 button trim panel.
 

golver

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
37
Re: Trim Pump help

I did not try hitting the top two buttons at the same time. I will try that. The drive is currently up. If the drive is up, does the middle button dis engage? I only get working noise from the pump when I hit the bottom button.<br /><br />What are Rams? Are they the shock looking arms on the outdrive?
 

Trent

Captain
Joined
Nov 17, 2001
Messages
3,333
Re: Trim Pump help

Yes the trim cylinders (rams) are the shock looking things. :) <br /><br />The reason back then for three button control was this... Bottom was full down. Middle button was for trim up til it was unsafe to trim up anymore so you would not hurt the outdrives u-joints. The top two buttons were for full up so you could put the boat on the trailor.<br /><br /> As to the middle button being disengaged when the drive is up, I guess you can look at it that way. Follow the purple wire from the middle button on the trim switch to the left side of the page on your diagram. It goes to a limit switch. This switch "disengages" the middle button when this switch "opens" as the drive goes about half way up.
 

Chris1956

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 25, 2004
Messages
27,659
Re: Trim Pump help

golver, The trim pump has three wires(Blue, Green, Black). The black wire should be grounded, for the pump to work properly. The Blue wire gets +12V to trim the motor up and the green wire gets +12V to trim the motor down (or vice versa, I cannot remember). The single solenoid is only used to trim the motor up. What was said about pushing the top and middle buttons to trim the motor up is correct. However, I would start to check out the pump, at the pump. If you connect the verticle slot on the pump harness connector to the upper horizontal slot, the solenoid should click, the motor run and the motor tilt up. If you connect the verticle slot to the lower horizontal slot, the motor should run the and the outdrive tilt down.
 

golver

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
37
Re: Trim Pump help

Ok, so what would I do if only the bottom button worked? What wiring would I want to check if the top two buttons do nothing?
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Trim Pump help

See if this will help.<br /><br />
Single%20Solenoid%20Trim%20Sys..png
 

golver

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
37
Re: Trim Pump help

Ok, I got the trim pump working. <br /><br />Just needed to push both buttons to get it to move up and needed some fluid :) <br /><br />Now the issue changes a little. Fix one thing, find another broken.<br /><br />The lower unit does not go all the way down. At it's lowest point, the prop is still angled up. Shouldn't the lower unit lower to the point that the prop is parrallel to the ground?<br /><br />Do I need to grease the rams or something?
 

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: Trim Pump help

does the pump stop running ? or does it just stop moveing ?<br /><br />if you were low on fluid you may have to go up and down several times to purge out the air<br /><br />you can also crack open the fittings on the cylinders to bleed out the air<br /><br />you mention changeing the drive did it move freely when the cylinders were off to change it<br /><br />tommays
 

golver

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
37
Re: Trim Pump help

The pump keeps running, but the outdrive stops moving.<br /><br />I went up and down with in the parametors it would move to bleed out the air. My Trim pump has a vent on it and I made sure it was open.<br /><br />What do you mean by "you mention changeing the drive did it move freely when the cylinders were off to change it"<br /><br />I changed the trim pump in the boat. The lower unit did not move at all when the trim pump was off the boat.
 

golver

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
37
Re: Trim Pump help

Ok, I got it to go up and down last night. ;) <br /><br />Where the arm goes in and out of the thicker part of the ram, there were what looked like some washers or C clips. One of them was stuck on the arm and would not let the arm compress into the thicker part of the ram, thus the outdrive could not lower. <br /><br />I loosened it up with a screwdriver and it goes up and down perfectly.<br /><br />Now I am worried about these clips/washers. The one that was stuck has now just been pushed to the end of the arm and is stuck down there. There are two others that are stuck down there too. They move freely, but can't get by the stuck one. What are these for? Can I replace them?<br /><br />On the opposite ram they are pushed down inside the top lip of the thicker part of the ram where the thinner arms slides inside it.
 
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