trim motor help

[b-man]

Hi I just changed my trim motor on a 86 125 hp Force, when I went to fill the unit with oil not sure what has happened? Put some fluid in, stopped hit the switch to raise and lower it finally started to work, guess there was air in lines. I stopped and put some fluid in to top off, and was raising motor up and down, when I notice fluid coming out of the back of the pump . My base at the pump has 4 lines and in the center there a piston, or rod?? some thing that held in by a c clip, it appears that where it is coming out from , but just on the other side?
My question is it possible that I have fillled to full, thus making leak out there, and did it do any damage? The unit fill hole is on the side of unit which I could not tell if was full and just running out or just coming out from me putting it in? It has leak some out to form a good spot on ground, motor is still working, raising and lowering, just wanted some ideals, Thanks

 

[javsam]

Re: trim motor help

Yes,you probablly overfilled the reservoir.You may have damaged the o-ring where it is leaking out.Always a good idea to have a manual on hand for reference.

 

[b-man]

Re: trim motor help

Thanks for the info, where can you get a good manual at and is 1 better than the other?
On another note: I took off the screw/plug on side to see if any more ran out and notice a small piece of looks like metal shaving strip any ideal what that might be??Thought it was part of the threaded part where plug screws in.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: trim motor help

You can not overfill the reservoir unless you turn it on its side. When installed on the engine, fluid will run out the fill hole when it is at the proper level.

Your pump does not have a rod going through it. in the front and back are two check valves held in by internal circlips. These valves are sealed to the body by O rings, and obviously, one has gone bad on you. It is not your fault.

Unfortunately, to remove these type valves, you must dismount the pump and reservoir from the engine mounting clamp to make room at the back (side toward transom). Then you must remove the internal retaining ring with a circlip pliers. Now, you must activate the pump to blow out the valve. With the engine blocked up, activate down to blow out the rear check valve. Gunna get oil all over the place so have a lot of rags handy. Replace O rings with VITON if you can get them. Regular BUNA-n black O rings will not last nearly as long.

Lubricate the new O rings and push in the valve by hand. Then install the retaining circlip and remount the reservoir and pump assembly.

This is one of those thankless jobs that don't take special tools, seem simple, but take a lot of time and make a mess.

You can try adding some transmission sealer to swell the leaking seal, but it will swell all the internal O rings and later cause more problems. If it is not leaking too badly, you can live with it and keep filling the reservoir--but that is not very "Green". You can also try cleaning it really well with solvent then filling with thick layer of Black RTV silicone. I don't really think that will work, but as a simple cure, it is worth a try.

The relatively simple, clean, but expensive cure is to buy another pump.

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim motor help

my guess would be that the valve body isn't seated onto the reservoir or that the o-ring is defective. Probably the armature isn't seated into gear and it is causing gap. If so then I wouldn't expect the motor to spin very well either. If it did spin then I would expect a clunky almost grinding noise. When you put a new trim motor onto an existing valve body it is extremely important that the drive shaft is fully seated into the gears before you tighten the four screws (and very easy to get wrong).

Here's how:
leave the valve body attached to four oil tubes. Take out three studs/nuts/bolts that secure motor to stern brackets. Remove four screws that hold valve body to motor. Gently pull motor and flex oil tubes so that the mounting bracket comes clear of mounting studs. Rotate motor and lift directly up.

When putting in new motor always use a new valve body to reservoir oring. Always use the correct size. NEVER use an oversize oring or blobs of silicone sealant. Put the oring onto the valve body and make sure that it sits all the way down. Lower the motor onto valve body with bracket facing towards you. Rotate motor until armature drive shaft drops down into pump gears. Rotate motor to line up mounting bracket and miount to engine. Do not allow armature to lift out of gears while doing this.

 

[javsam]

Re: trim motor help

Original factory manuals are the best.Sometimes they pop up on ebay.There is a guy that sells factory manauls on ebay called searayman,I've bought from him before and I have been happy with my purchase.Next best manual would be from Clymer publications.Finally as a last resort manuals from Seloc. I believe that metal shaving your talking about is a wave washer that goes under the plug to keep the plug from loosening up.

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim motor help

Thanks for the info, where can you get a good manual at and is 1 better than the other?
On another note: I took off the screw/plug on side to see if any more ran out and notice a small piece of looks like metal shaving strip any ideal what that might be??Thought it was part of the threaded part where plug screws in.

If AL then the metal shaving is probably part of the plug or reservoir threads that have been stripped off due to corrosion or over-torque. The plug has an oring seal and should be finger tightened only to the point where it won't vibrate loose and fall into the lake. If steel than it has been ground off the end of your armature by misalignment. You don't want metal shavings floating your system. One day they will jam into the wrong spot and your system will never work right again without a full rebuild. Do the best you can to get them out and hope for the best. But be prepared for your system to fail and need a $150-300 rebuild on any given day.

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim motor help

Replace O rings with VITON if you can get them. Regular BUNA-n black O rings will not last nearly as long.

I finally talked to an o-ring guy and got the lowdown on this. Viton is slightly more tear resistant but not enough to make a big difference. The real benefit of Viton is chemical resistance. Some motor oils have additives that attack regular o-rings. ATF is even worse. Smaller orings get eaten up more quickly than big ones.

 

[b-man]

Re: trim motor help

Thanks for all the advise, but motor is working up and down okay , no bad sounds as you stated.Believe I got motor on okay like you mentioned as knew shaft need to be seated in place. My old motor worked very rough, it would start, stop going up, very hard to get boat on plain, looked as if it had some water in it, perhaps shorting out .
I wonder if this motor finally gave enough pressure that it blew out a oring as it has been stated? My only problem is that darn leak!!! I did notice that I had a drip coming out from 1 of my lines the one that is easiest to get too, tried to tighten will see, might take it loose and try it again? Thanks

 

[RRitt]

Re: trim motor help

If you are sure that the motor is seated then there is no easy way out. 125 HP means that your check valves (aka manual release plugs) may have expanded from back pressure and that if reassembled without checking then they may not stay together. My advice would be to send me the whole pump assembly including new motor and let me rebuild the valve body.

But first, make absolutely sure it isn't just the large oring between reservoir and valve body. You may still luck out. If memory serves me that is a dash 041 oring ... it's one you can get fairly easily and inexpensively without having to buy in hundreds. Like maybe $0.89 each?

0.89 beats heck out of $100+.

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update
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re-reading your post .... there is one other possibility. Is it possible that oil is leaking out from the tube fitting and running to back before falling? Crossed threads are way common with putting on aftermarket motors. A lot of them replace the short aluminum reservoir with a tall plastic one. The hydraulic ports end up in a slightly different spot .... the tubes don't line up ... the aluminum is much softer than the stainless .... the back ports are very hard to reach ... and the result is cross threading of rear oil tubes.

Is this possible? If so then I can not over stress the importance of being careful and gentle. IF you strip out the threads then your pump will need rebuilding. The only way to do a grade-A repair is to drill out and rethread. The only way to drill and rethread without any risk of metal flakes entering system is to rebuild valve body. So be super careful not to strip out the very delicate and easily ruined hydraulic ports.

IF cross threading has already bugun then go to hardware store and buy some dash 010 sized orings. Put thim into ports under the tube. Use less torque on tube nut and let theo-ring handle sealing. Not perfect but infinitely superior to stripping out the port.

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[b-man]

Re: trim motor help

can I get your # please, pm with it thanks