Trailer surge brakes

lvhdude

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Dec 23, 2022
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Hello all, new to the forum and Four Winns boats. I am working on a new to me 220 Horizon. Have a kit and boot ordered for the Atwood surge brake master cylinder, but I need advice on the brake line for the removable tongue. It looks like it should have a clip bracket welded to the rearmost part of the tongue tube to secure the steel line into to allow the soft rubber hose to go to the removable part of the quick coupler. Mine does not have this and it looks like the steel tubing has suffered. I seem to have located parts to repair the master cylinder (Atwood) for the surge brakes, but I can't find a replacement shock absorber. Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you, lvhdude.
 

Lou C

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Post up a pic of what you’re working on might be easier to advise that way.
 

lvhdude

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Dec 23, 2022
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All 3 for the titan. Eyes on both ends. The Atwood has an eye and a stud. Thanks for looking. Anyone have any luck with an Atwood replacement?
 

alldodge

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I see 2 options
New coupler
Take a Titan shock and old atwood shock to a welding shop. They will cut the end off both and weld it on the new one
 

lvhdude

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Dec 23, 2022
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I see 2 options
New coupler
Take a Titan shock and old atwood shock to a welding shop. They will cut the end off both and weld it on the new one
Yeah, I could do that, and might if I can't find the correct one. Here's a pic.
 

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lvhdude

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Dec 23, 2022
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I found specs for a replacement that is an 85830 with dimensions 8.25 x 11, pretty close to what I have but not available anymore. I found a kyb that has lengths of 7.67 X 11.61, ring bottom, stud top part 343158. The titan part seems much shorter. In fairness I can't see anywhere near that much movement but I have not played with the mechanics of it enough to know what the min x max has to be. I'll post up what I figure out.
 

bruceb58

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Just replace the surge brake actuator. Atwood isn't made any more so you won't be finding parts now or in the future.

Good luck rebuilding a trailer master cylinder. Even auto master cylinders are hit and miss rebuilding and they don't have close to the corrosion issues that boat trailer master cylinders have.
 
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Lou C

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I agree just replace it. Even when you can find parts it’s not much more to just start over with a new one.
 

lvhdude

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Dec 23, 2022
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Hmm. I found some parts for the Atwood. A chevy kit, and a VW boot. I dont think I've ever had a brake cylinder fail that I rebuilt, but this is a new one to me. I like the reverse lockout on the Atwood, replacements either require rewiring my truck and trailer or purchasing some kind of accessory to do the same job. Too bad someone doesnt copy the Atwood design. I'll let you know how it works out. Thanks for the suggestions.
 

lvhdude

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So the chevy kit had a piston that would require filling in the recess for the plunger or machining the old piston to accept the lip seal instead of the old o ring which is what I did. The cylinder cleaned up pretty good with some honing. Didn't get any info on it but I welded a clip to the end of the detachable tongue to mount a new brake line to with a retaining clip attached to the flex line fitting. I bench bled the master and got it installed on the tongue, but can't reach the coupler and the disconnect at the same time to bleed the line. Have to wait on an extra hand. It didn't look like it has worked for a long time. Something tells me I should do wheel cylinders too. I was able to make some new rubber washers for the stud end of the shock which turned out to work alright. Just worked the air out of the stroke range. I have the extended and compressed dimensions if anyone wants them. I did order 2 sets of the kit and the VW boot for the which fit well, again if anyone wants the part number. I might be the last guy trying to save an old Atwood master. 20230101_170154.jpg20230101_170211.jpg
 

bruceb58

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You could have ordered a New Titan Dico surge unit and installed it on your trailer and completely working by now.

And yes...replace the wheel cylinders.
 

alldodge

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Nice and make sure to put something around the line where it exits to keep the frame from cutting the line over time
 

dingbat

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I like the reverse lockout on the Atwood, replacements either require rewiring my truck and trailer or purchasing some kind of accessory to do the same job. Too bad someone doesnt copy the Atwood design.
My last trailer had an Attwood when I bought it.
I absolutely hated the thing...........you can't "lockout" under load. Almost stranded me at 1 am in the middle of nowhere.

After that episode I prefer not to deal with any sort of mechanical lockout and just put the truck in reverse.
 

Lou C

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If you're going to replace the wheel cylinders, make sure first that the adjusters aren't frozen up. If they are, you will be better off with a pair of new backing plates all ready to go, although you can buy new adjusters separately. I will just extend the threads of a new adjuster and coat it with a good marine grease, after doing that I have never had one freeze up on me.
With the wheel cylinders what you can do before installing them is peel back the rubber boot, put a bit of silicone brake grease (Permatex orange stuff) on the top of the brake piston, and seal the boot to the cylinder with hi temp RTV. This will extend the life of them and makes then less likely to seize up due to water getting past the boot.
The only problems I've had with drum brakes over the years were the wheel cyls and the adjusters, doing what I have written above, has extended the life of those parts by quite a bit.
The new Tiedown/Dexter 12" units I put in last year have a new kind of bootless wheel cylinder design that is supposed to last longer, I'll see if they last longer than the boot style. I always have one pair of backing plates in the garage, if I have a problem these can be swapped out easily.

I know some have had trouble with Tie Down actuators but I've had the same one since '04, still working fine, I have a rebuild kit in the garage if it fails and new emergency cable, if I have a failure I can be back on the road in a few hrs.
 
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alldodge

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I ran a separate wire to the lock out so it could be engaged from the dash switch
 
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