Trailer method WOT timing

[wormboy]

I need to adjust my WOT timing on an 89 E150XP; I can't afford a wheel (who can?), don't have a horse trough, the lake is never smooth enough to attempt this while moving, and waterskiing close behind with a timing light in one hand seems "unlucky".:^
Have any of you tried adjusting WOT at the boat ramp with the boat cinched to the trailer and survived to tell about it? Does it actually have to get to WOT? Any advice or tips for doing this safely would be greatly appreciated!
Better yet-- is there a "joe Reeves" type method for timing engines with the Quick Start ignition?

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

I know that people time engine's on the trailer, but that is a lot of thrust on the boat transom. With a 150, I would probably be listening for a very loud snap. The manual call's for timing the engine by checking both cylinders' 1, & 2 against there respective timing grids' on the flywheel, and then setting to the cylinder that reads the highest. I don't know how Joe's method would work in this case. Hopefully he, or someone else can comment on this.

 

[wormboy]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

Yeah-- it's the loud snap followed by the crash of the boat landing on the back of my truck that makes me very hesitant to try this. A new testing wheel is $400-- I had read that there are specific wheels for each motor (not just for the thru exhaust capability, but also to mimic dynamics at different rpms), which makes me wonder if the one or two wheels at a mechanic shop are accurate for this anyway. Or is this just thinking too much?
thanks !!

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

You not only need the test wheel. you need a baffled tank of water. 500- 1000 gal. would be about right Add an exhaust blower to the tank also.This is the way it is done at factory service schools'. But then! Every one has one of those.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

I don't know if it's any consolation to you, but the dealer told me they'd time it and do a complete link & sync for about $90, starting price. That depends on if they find any other issues.

That's what I'd like to do, but they want 3 weeks for the appointment and another 7-10 days to keep the boat. Maybe this winter they will see it.

I wonder what year they put that quick start feature on. I was told my 86 didn't have it.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

There really isn't that much pressure on the transom. If you have the motor too deep, it won't rev up to the desired rpm. Maybe not past 3000 or so.

Set the motor just deep enough to get the water pump covered. Once it's warmed up and in gear you may even have to play with the trim to allow some more slip so the r's come up. With the slip there isn't a whole lot of pressure on the transom. No more than if you're running on the lake at 6000. The motor is only going to make so much torque, it has no idea if the boat is still on the trailer or not.

If you did buy, rent or borrow a test prop you can use it in the same way only you can put the motor in the water completely. The test wheel has tremendous slip so it's no big deal.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

So it's ok to time the boat at WOT above 5000 rpms on trailer doing this? There is a ramp at my lake that actually gets shallower the further you back down it. I can't load from that ramp, but I can get the water pump area completely submerged at this ramp.

Would that be a good place for me to time mine?

 

[MarkV_Deep6]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

I am pasting this as I can't seem to link to Joes article. It does work even on my V8, and it was orriginally way off.

The Quick Start on the engine will be automatically set to 10% advance upon use, and should not need to be adjusted. Just do the WOT method he describes.
(BE SURE TO HAVE ALL PLUGS GROUNDED!!)

Of course the actual WOT would probably be prefered but ....

(Timing At Cranking Speed 4°)
(J. Reeves)
The full spark advance can be adjusted without have the engine running at near full throttle as follows.

To set the timing on that engine, have the s/plugs out, and have the throttle at full, set that timer base under the flywheel tight against the rubber stop on the end of the full spark timer advance stop screw (wire it against that stop if necessary).

Rig a spark tester and have the gap set to 7/16". Hook up the timing light to the #1 plug wire. Crank the engine over and set the spark advance to 4° less than what the engine calls for.

I don't know the full spark advance setting your engine calls for, but to pick a figure, say your engine calls for 28°, set the timing at 24°. The reasoning for the 4° difference is that when the engine is actually running, due to the nature of the solid state ignition componets, the engine gains the extra 4°.

If you set the engine to its true setting at cranking speed, when running it will advance beyond its limit by 4° which will set up pre-ignition causing guaranteed piston damage! You don't want that to take place.

No need to be concerned about the idle timing as that will take care of itself. The main concern is the full advance setting.

Be sure to use your own engines spark advance settings, not the one I picked out of the air here in my notes.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

Mark, I thought I had read NOT to use Joe's method if you have the quickstart.

 

[h_lankford]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

MASTER brian, please re-read Dhadleys reply. You cannot time it at 5000 on the trailer because you aren't gonna get the rpms that high. With stationary water, the engine does not have enough power to rev up that high (unless you have it half way out of the water , no no ) Maybe just 3000 or so as he says. The reason the test wheel allows you to rev up in stationary water is because it does not have the pitch that your prop has.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

h lankford, that's not what I got out of what he said.

I read it to say if motor is down it won't get the RPM's high, but that if you trim the motor up, so the water pump is just covered you can get the RPM's to come up, as it starts to slip.

With that said, the ramp, I spoke of would allow me to back down, leave the motor trimmed down and just have the motor deep enough to cover the water pump area. But in thinking about this, that might stick the prop too close to the bottom, where there are likely rocks, so if this is ok, I'll just use the deeper ramp and trim motor up.

 

[wormboy]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

Hey Gents--- just to get back to the Joe Reeves method and Quick Start issue:
I'm not sure i follow MarkV_Deep6's post: wouldn't the Quick Start feature be active any time the engine is started or the ignition switch is open, as when using the Joe Reeves method? Wouldn't this mean that the WOT advance set as per Joe Reeves method ends up being off by 10%?

Can you explain this a little more clearly for us rookies?

THANKS!!

 

[farginicehole]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

MASTER Brian, I agree with your interpretation of Dhadley's post. I think this is the method I will try for my '89 XP150, as it seems I have also read somewhere that the Joe Reeves method won't work with my QuickStart-equipped motor. I also am a little confused (NOT doubtful, as I know Joe knows his stuff!) about how he says not "to be concerned with the idle timing as that will take care of itself".

One more unrelated question - is anyone else having problems with the "subscribe to thread" e-mail notifications on this forum? This feature used to work great for me, but doesn't seem to every since they changed the look (and who knows what else?) of the forum some time ago.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

farginicehole2, I am also confused on that as well.

My boat doesn't have the quick start so I timed my boat to 28* (24* using Joe's method) and didn't mess with the idle timing, but I think I'm going to go back and check that. It didn't idle well the day I timed it. Yesterday, it idled fine, but had what seemed like a fouled plug or missing coil/powerpack. I also am going to change the timing to 30* (because that's what the manual calls for vs. the 28* on the carb cover.)

As for the "subscribe to thread" feature, it obviously isn't working. I actually asked a while back and was told they were working on it, but that's been several weeks or more. I use it, so I have the link. Then I check it occasionally.

 

[xtraham]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

I think Joe is prob. on the assumption that you have allready done a link and synk and adjusted the initial timming, then there is no need to reset (idle) timming

 

[Seasport]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

I seem to remember Joe saying you need to disable Quickstart for his method to work with Quickstart motors. I think you can do this by grounding the temp sensor wire going to the powerpack - Quickstart is disabled once the motor reaches a certain temp. There are two temp sensor wires going to the powerpack - the tan wire which triggers SLOW when the motor overheats and a black/white wire which I think is the Quickstart temp sensor input. So I think youground the black/white wire.

Anyone able to verify this?

Actually, setting the timing while underway isn't that bad provided you have some smooth water and a good driver.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

Here's how we check timing on the trailer.

First, we have pre-set the timing as Joe describes at the shop. Once we get to the ramp we back the boat into the water just far enough to cover the water pump. Once we get the motor started and warmed up we slowly bring the throttle up, in gear, until it's wide open.

If we cannot get to 5500 +/- we either use the trim to get the prop "looser" or have the trailer / boat pulled up the ramp SLIGHTLY. It won't take much. The motor will hit 5500 or so pretty easy. We then check the timing, it's rarely much off.


As for the idle timing, we don't really worry about what the actual number is, we set it so the motor idles as slow as possible in gear and still has a strong idle. Boats that are stern heavy will have more backpressure and might need a little help from the timing to stay running. Motors mounted high that have very little water in the midsection might not need as much timing at idle.

 

[Seasport]

Re: Trailer method WOT timing

Dhadley, is it possible to use Joe's method with a quickstart motor? Do you need to disable quickstart for it to work. I thought you coul ddisable quickstart by grounding out the black/white temp sensor wire going to the powerpack. However, another member has tried this and it didn't make any difference.

See:

http://forums.iboats.com/bbBoard.cgi?a=viewthread;fid=28;gtid=1155079