Towing questions from a newbie

travism

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Apr 15, 2004
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Hi all - I'm looking into buying a 24'+/- cruiser but I don't have a specific boat picked out yet. I'm approximating about 8,000 lbs loaded up with the trailer. I have a Nissan Titan with the towing package as a tow vehicle, and I am within the tow rating limits. I have towed smaller boats with smaller vehicles before, but I want to make sure I understand what's going on before I head out there with that extra weight behind me.<br /><br />1. What are the different trailer brake setups out there and what setup do I need? What exactly are surge brakes?<br /><br />2. I have a Class IV hitch connected to the frame but need to buy the tongue and ball assembly. Should I be buying a weight distribution assembly and/or sway control? How do these work?<br /><br />Sorry this was long but I wanted to try to give you all the info that you needed, to know where I'm coming from. Let me know if you need more info from me. Thanks in advance for your help.
 

cp

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Feb 1, 2004
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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Here's a link to some trailer brake info:<br /><br />Surge Brakes, Electric too<br /><br />Your truck should have manufacturer's info on whether a weight distribution hitch is needed, but based on the below, it doesn't seem necessary.<br /><br />Powerboats 2004 Tow Vehicle<br /><br />Have fun.
 

Bob_VT

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

I would imagine that the trailer setup already has brakes. I would inspect/test them carefully to make sure they work. Don't change the design of the brakes that are installed unless it is absolutely necessary (ie.. got electric stay with it same with surge).<br /><br />2" ball with 1-1/4" shank: 6000, 7500 or 8000# capacity or 2-5/16" ball with 1-1/4" shank: 10,000# capacity Make sure you have the right ball and tongue insert. You don't want a weak link in your design.<br /><br />As for weight distribution and anti sway that will be determined on your test run of towing.<br /><br />Bob
 

travism

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Originally posted by Bob_VT:<br /><br />As for weight distribution and anti sway that will be determined on your test run of towing.<br /><br />
I did not realize that I could buy a weight distribution or anti-sway assembly seperate from the ball and tongue. I thought those were sold as a package so I was trying not to buy a ball and tongue insert only to have to buy another one with the extra assembly. Weight distribution or anti-sway parts are available as add-ons?<br /><br />Also, my owners manual says any trailers over 5,000 lbs need weight distribution, but lots of stuff in that manual seems overkill. Does this seem right?<br /><br />Pchonda - thanks for the websites. Just what I was looking for.
 

Bondo

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

I know the Japanese brand trucks have gotten a Little Bigger,<br />But I've Never Seen one that I'd want to be towing close to 5 Tons with..............<br /><br />I wouldn't tow a 24'er with anything Less than a 3/4ton truck.....
 

travism

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Apr 15, 2004
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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Bondo - you're opinion of my tow vehicle is noted, but it's not what I'm asking for in this thread. Thanks for your opinion anyway.<br /><br />I know I'm new here, but can anybody else give me anything constructive to add that addresses my questions? Thanks.
 

PDS

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Travism, Bondo, as usual gives good info but if your truck is rated high enough and you have a frame bolted on (reece or drawtight) hitch with both axles set up for brakes you should be alright. I recomment electric with the extra battery and control inside (easy acess) but that's my preference. Nothing against surge, but I feel electric is adjustable and easier to work with. My 2 cent's. PDS
 

BR549

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Aug 18, 2002
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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Bob has some good advice - any boat in that range should at least have surge brakes. Personally I think electric provide better response and control if you plan on towing alot. On the weight distribution/anti sway - this is usually for RV or car carrier type trailers because they have a higher hitch load. Never seen an anti sway on a boat trailer - best advice is check with the dealer that you buy the boat from. Let us know how the truck handles that load - helped a buddy pull about a 6,500 pound load with his Titan and I was very impressed with it's performance.
 
D

DJ

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

travism,<br /><br />Before I did anything (buying a boat) you may want to re-think your tow unit.<br /><br />If you "think" it is going to weigh 8500, add another 1500 to 2000. Dealers work with "dry" weights and do not consider: toys, coolers, gear, etc. That stuff adds up FAST. Not to mention your tow unit is rated with the driver only-NO PASSENGERS. There goes your 1500-2000 pound span.<br /><br />Buy the boat, weight it-loaded, then consider if it is safe to tow with your unit. If not, go to a 3/4 ton class truck.<br /><br />By the way, a good rule of thumb is to never tow more than 85% of your capacity. that leaves some room for "loading".<br /><br />Boats never lose weight, they only gain it.<br /><br />And, do not consider anything but four wheel brakes on your trailer, especially at that weight.<br /><br />I'm not a big fan of surge brakes, especially considering there are better alternatives (today) out there for not much more money. Plus, those alternatives give you braking while backing down a ramp. A HUGE plus.<br /><br />Look at all electric or, electric over hydrualic.<br /><br />Remember, your towed weight is going to outweigh your tow rig, considerably,. DO NOT skimp on the braking system of the trailer. If you do, it WILL bite you. Been there.<br /><br />Towing it is one thing, stopping it is a different matter. Don't find out too late!
 

JB

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Ditto DJ.<br /><br />The Titan is a very strong, full size, half ton pickup but it is still a half ton pickup.<br /><br />I also agree with Bondo that a truck that size is not enough for the load you contemplate but it has nothing to do with it being a "foreign" brand. It is built in the USA.<br /><br />Look for a truck rated for more than 10,000#.<br /><br />Good luck. :)
 

travism

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Thanks for all the advice. I "think" the boat and trailer will weigh less than what I said earlier. I was already adding about 1500lbs to cover the additional weight as recommended. It seems like I shouldn't worry about the weight distribution idea until I've bought and verify the weights at the scales. And I will give the trailer brakes a lot of consideration when buying. Thanks again.
 

Solittle

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Forget electrical brakes if you ever plan to launch in salt water. As to surge brakes go for the disks. Drums rust quickly even with the fresh water flush kits.<br /><br />I used to have a 27 1/2' flybridge sitting on a trailer that measured 35' from the ball to the end of the outdrive. Triple axle trailer. The rig weighed in at over 10,000 lbs.<br /><br />Be sure you have the guts to pull a rig that size. I didn't - It scared the crap out of me every time I pulled out of the driveway.
 

agrazela

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

travism,<br /><br />I believe your estimate of 8000 lbs total for a 24' cruiser is right on. My own "what do you think it will be and add 10%" estimate puts such a rig at about 7500 to 7700 lbs.<br /><br />Your Titan with tow package will work just fine for this towing and stopping this rig; you will have less torque than a 3/4 ton truck with a monstrous diesel engine, so just take it easy at the ramp...especially when slippery at low tide.<br /><br />The discs over drums is excellent advice if you will be launching in saltwater.
 

travism

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Thanks for the responses. I will be using the boat on inland lakes, so no saltwater issues here. I'll also only be towing about 5 miles from a storage place to the ramp on most occasions, but I wanted to be ready to tow to other lakes if I wanted to. Right now I plan on following Bob_VT's advise and not change whatever setup comes with the trailer and just be careful for such short trips. If I'm not comfortable with the braking system after a while then I'll look into changing the setup and maybe borrowing a bigger truck for the longer hauls. All of this assuming I like the initial setup of the trailer brakes and stay under the load ratings of the truck, which I will only look at boats/trailers that fit that description. Thanks.
 

snowshoe

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

For your estimated weight and your truck ratings I feel you are on the marginal side of tow vehicle/ trailer combination. Yes it wil be ok for short trips but you'll be in serious problem territory for freeway speeds or hilly terrain. Again it is not about the power to pull the trailer but the abilty to control the unit in winds, hills and curves and for serious braking. My 1500 chev 4x4 handles the 6500 lb travel trailer ok but it could use a 3/4 ton tow veh. Your boat/trailer would be better off using a 3/4 tons with 6 L motor or better. For a good education in pulling larger units, check out the tow vehicles forums on RV.Net. These RV people have vast experience about towing. ;)
 

Realgun

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Travism, the Titam you have is perfect for what your going to tow. It is also the No. 1 truck in the Boat Trailer Magazine toew off and they are towing 7500 Lbs.<br />1. Rated at 9200 Lbs. No issues there<br />2. Comes with a Class 4 hitch.<br />3. has a tranny oil temp guage.<br />4. Has an electric brake already setup in truck or prewired.<br /><br />Go ahead and tow.<br />I have a choice of my next truck and its not going to be a ford. It probably will be the Titan as they give you more for the money and the darn thing is built here.<br /> If you wer going to tow miles and miles then you might want a desel truck but your not. <br /><br />Most people buy a big truck cause they are small and want to feel good. :)
 

travism

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Apr 15, 2004
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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Thanks again for the replies. There seems to be some disagreement about how much is okay to tow behind a 1/2 ton truck, but that seems to be a common theme in a lot of threads. I'll let you know how it goes.
 

demsvmejm

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Here's my two sense :) I'm a certified auto mechanic and a commercially licensed driver, so I hope I know a little. I agree with all the info provided to you so far. But here's my take...<br />You’ve obviously been very intelligent in your approach to this, you researched your truck and it's capabilities. Please, for safety sake, follow the 85% rule, trucks are light in the rear, and tongue weight should be no more than 10% of trailer loaded weight, so that’s not much down force on those rear wheels, relatively. Not in an extreme maneuver that is, when the trailer is trying to pass you. <br />Truck manufacturers are generous with their tow ratings since that’s a badge of honor, and a selling point of the “Macho” units. I’m not familiar with the Titan, but I’ve always liked Nissans.<br />As for brakes, there’s surge, but they only work when you’re braking (I know DUH!). But I mean the tow vehicle must be slowing to activate the surge brakes, and there’s not much if any control. Trailer starting to sway, forget it. There’s electric, but assisting you to back down the ramp? Don’t have them energized when they submerge. You can control them manually, a big plus in my book, but NOT a great sway control. Manually activating trailer brakes can actually cause more problems than help, sometimes. But electric brakes require an in cab controller, and special wiring. I would recommend electric brakes however, on all of your trailer axles too. As for the controller, go for an inertia-activated controller. These combine the “Surge” and the standard electric controller features. You set the baseline braking force, (standard controller) and then the harder the tow vehicle is stopping, the more force the trailer brakes apply (surge). I use a Tekonsha Voyager XP, but any inertia type controller is fine. Buy MORE capability than you need, my XP is rated or up to triple axle, instead of the Voyager at up to twin axle. If you don’t install it yourself, insist on 10-gauge wire from the controller to the trailer connector and from the battery to the controller. Also insist the ground wire from the controller be run directly to the battery NEG. These are requirements in the installation instructions but most installers try to make it fast and cheap, so they cut corners. And manufacturers generally use 14 gauge wires, TOO LIGHT. And these brakes are for safety, so in my opinion there’s no corners to cut. Also another good reason for electric brakes is a breakaway brake. If your trailer has electric brakes, make sure it has a breakaway brake. And insist that the charge wire on your tow vehicle for the break-away battery be at least 12 gauge, with a circuit breaker, NOT a fuse as close to the tow vehicle battery as possible.<br />As for weight distribution and sway control, I agree I’ve never seen either on a boat trailer, but leave that to your dealer and your experience to decide.<br />It was mentioned that your truck has a trans fluid temp gauge. Contact your Nissan dealer or a reputable tranny shop to find out the maximum SAFE (for the trans) temp. And if you see your gauge getting even close to that temp, install an auxiliary trans oil cooler. I would install one anyway, regardless. This may get some disagreement, but I plumbed mine trans to aux cooler to radiator back to the trans. Popular Mechanics recommended this and I agreed, because the aux cooler will cool the fluid as much as possible. If the trans is computer controlled, the trans fluid temp is sometimes used for shift points and overdrive engagement. If the aux cooler cools the fluid too much, shifting could be affected. So that’s why the radiator is my last stop before returning to the trans. The radiator will either provide more cooling if the fluid is still above coolant temp, or it will raise the fluid temp back up to operating temp if it’s been cooled too much. (i.e. winter driving with no load). Either way, the fluid is being cooled better than the radiator alone could. <br />I know this has been long, and I’m sorry, but knowledge is power, and I’m trying to share my knowledge with you, so you can have the power to make a good choice, for you, your family, and others on the road. Good luck and have fun.
 

Bondo

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Most people buy a big truck cause they are small and want to feel good.
Ayah,<br />Thanks Realgun............<br /><br />Maybe,<br />Just Maybe,<br />I Prefer to have the Best Tool,<br />To do the Job,<br />Safely...........................<br /><br /><br />I've seen the results of towing Too Big of a Load,<br />With Too Small of a Horse............<br />Broken,+ Dead Bodies are Not Pretty.............
 

Realgun

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Re: Towing questions from a newbie

Bondo i agree with ya in that however they make lotsa tools to do the same job. :) <br />Some are better than others.<br /><br />Dead bodies are not pretty at all. Safety is no. 1 in my book too.<br /><br />If I had a 24 foot boat I would problably buy a 3/4 ton truck with a desel. Only because I pull at least 140 miles 1 way to get to water.<br />However the truck discussed will do the job and is within ratings by the Mfg.
 
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