Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

mikehoyt

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Oct 22, 2007
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26
I have 2012 Tohatsu MFS4BL which has been upgraded by dealer to 6 with hi thrust prop and alternator. This is auxiliary power on 27 ft 4000 lb sailboat

I had a 2010 version of same motor for 2011 season and loved it until stolen. This motor was purchased Spring 2012 and worked flawlessly as well.

Oct 2012 finished sailing for season. Took motor to dealer for winter service in November. This service included run engine to flush, stabilize fuel system, fog engine, drain carb, change engine oil, change gear oil, spray powerhead with corrosion guard

May 2013 picked up engine from dealer. Store it upright on a motor stand. Ran in a test tank for 20 minutes at low throttle and ran properly.
June 1 2013 ran again in test tank for 20 minutes at low idle and ran properly. Went sailing and left outside so my daughter put in garage but laid it on side with handle up for 5 hrs until I got home. I then put it on motor stand upright but did not see oil on floor. The next day I ran again in tank for 20 minutes with no problems.

June 15. Launching of boat. With boat still in travel lift slings I start the motor and it starts first pull but then revs high for 20 seconds or so and then dies. Try restarting and it continues to do this. Gas coming out top end of carb. Try tapping the carb but no luck. Water flowing properly all these times.
At the dock we take carb apart and there is some dirt (I was toldf). Put back togetehr and run the motor wile docked at low idle (using external tank) and it runs well but dies after ten minutes. Go sailing and works well on way out and on way back into marina. While at low idle for docking and while in neutral the motor stalls. Will not immediately restart and this is a displacement boat so dock with more momentum than desired since no engine means no reverse. Starts up again when I try at dock but I am not happy so I take it off boat and back home.

June 16 as I remove engine from truck (travel with it on side handle side down) I see gar oil dripping out of the bottom and find that the gear oil drain screw is loose. Tighten and top up gear oild and thank myself for bringing engine home! I also replace spark plug with brand new one just to be safe. In test tank the engine continues to stall after a couple minutes at low idle so I adjust the throttle stopper screw on top of carb 1/2 turn clockwise. Runs perfectly now and does not stall. Run engine for an hour at low idle. using internal tank

June 20 run engine for an hour low idle with no issue on internal tank.

June 21 back to boat and put engine on stern. Runs at low idle at dock for 3+ hours without stalling on internal tank.

June 22 - go sailing. Use external tank (since I used 3 hours of internal tank fuel night before). Engine works well on way out - run for 10 - 15 minutes. Coming back in engine starts well and I run at 1/3 throttle while dousing sails. Stalls. No easy restart. With hood off I think I see some trace of gas on carb but no more is coming out. try tapping carb. get engine started and begin motoring in our narrow channel (no water either side). Running WOT and it sounds OK but a bit off. 2/3 of way thru channel it dies and will not restart. When I eventually get it restarted only runs at very high throttle. Dies within 30 seconds. Does not restart. get towed in.

At dock try to restart. Will only start with throttle open wide and choke on max. Will run high revs for approx 5 seconds then die down and kick and sputter three or four times then take off and run high revs. This repeats five or six times and then motor dies after 30 - 40 seconds. Does this again the next two times I manage to restart

I take motor back home again.

June 23. Again in test tank. Motor seems to exhibit same symptoms initially on internal tank. I disconnect fuel filter and drain from both ends (no visible debris) and then restart. Motor works beautifully again. Runs for 20+ minutes at both high revs and at low idle with no issues. Took a video. Can be seen here:
Tohatsu mfs4c - YouTube

I decide I have a lazy motor that does not like to puch a boat (humour)..

Dropped motor off at dealer.

Any help would be appreciated. I specifically sought out this model and configuraton for power and weight and have loved it until this year. Every time I try to use it with my boat it dies and I cannot trust it as it is now dangerous.

Mike
 

Grub54891

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Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
6,097
Re: Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

I think mabe by having the dealer drain the gas,from the carb it dried out and plugged a passage.even though it was taken apart after that,was it completely cleaned? And I mean completely. Not just dump out the dirt and put back together. The first time I ever drained the gas completly for storage,back when I was 13 years old,I had nothing but problems the following summer.never drained em' since,stabilise the fuel with your favorite stuff and put away,no more carb issues! Even with ethonal. Just had a tohotsu in the shop last year that went swimming,got it going fine after a good flushing,now its back,they sent it swimming again,put it away last fall, now it's junk.
Grub
 

pvanv

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Joined
Apr 20, 2008
Messages
6,559
Re: Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

Clean the carb. Flooding indicated a stuck-open needle. Then apparently too lean. Some junk in there somewhere. A good cleaning is called for. We always recommend running dry, even with stabilizer, as pump gas is so dirty, and when it evaporates, it does leave residue.
 

mikehoyt

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Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
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Re: Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

No it was not completely cleaned. Thanks for the replies

Mike
 

mikehoyt

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Oct 22, 2007
Messages
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Re: Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

Dealer has now run in their test tank using their external tank and my internal tank. They have found no problems with the motor. They have however cleaned the carb. Suspicion is a problem with my external fuel tank (which I did not drop off with motor). If this is the case then I have had two seperate incidents - the first stuck float incident having occured prior to ever connecting the external tank. I suspect this may in fact be the case.

Crossing fingers that the cleaning of carb does the trick and will use internal tank only until I get a chance to thoroughly inspect and clean tank and disassemble and clean hose and components from external tank. Same new gas in both internal and external tanks ...

Mike
 

Sea Rider

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Sep 20, 2008
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12,345
Re: Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

When cleaning external tank, turn it up side down and remove all fuel leftovers, check it with debris, signs of contamination, clean well tank interior, unscrew elbow tube from tank, remove & clean small mesh filter, insert tube into a water faucet, open faucet and while water exits, nail push connector's ball the further it will go, sometimes fuel debris will be accumulated there, will limit correct free fuel flow to hose.

Assemble back elbow tube along small filter, connect hose, keep pressed open end connector's plastic pin, prime bulb vigorously several times to purge fuel paths onto a proper container, if with debris inside hose, will be washed out into container. It's wise to clean both tanks from time to time as you are buying along unwated contaminated fuels at service stations.

Happy Boating
 

mikehoyt

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Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
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Re: Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

UPDATE

Went to pick up motor yesterday and per dealers instructions showed up early so they could show it working to me in test tank. Worked great and they continued to run it at full throttle as I went to pay the invoice. When I came back to the maintenance building to pick it up the motor had shut down. Fuel filter was dry. They connected their own external fuel tank and squeezed bulb. Fuel filter filled with gas and then gas started pouring out top of carb. Float stuck again. Technician then announced a faulty float and carb is being replaced under warranty.

I was 2 minutes away from taking motor home thinking problem solved and 2 days from being reliant on it in a 30NM voyage with unsettled weather forecast. Feel very lucky that this intermittent problem with the float valve sticking was found when it was. Technician says this explains every problem I have had and I agree.

I hate intermittent problems with anything!

Mike
 

pvanv

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Re: Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

Glad the warranty worked for you. We seldom have to replace new carbs. However, sometimes it is more efficient/expedient to do that, rather than spend a lot of labor on one.

It's good that an extended tank test revealed the problem. Many technicians have pulled their hair out over intermittent problems... which can sometimes be revealed by an extended test period.

These days, we stock the MFS6 SailPro outboards (either long or ultra long), as they are less expensive than upgrading a 4 to a SailPro. Adding the alternator, rectifier, and HT prop, plus the carb upgrade exceeds the cost of the SailPro out of the box. Now then, if you already owned the 4 long, that upgrade would make sense.
 

mikehoyt

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Oct 22, 2007
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Re: Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

Further UPDATE

Dealer rebuilt carb. Went to Charlottetown PEI from Tatamagouche NS. 30 NM over open water. motored 1.5 hours on way over. motored 1 hour on way back and had exact same issue. Bulb was partially defalted rather than hard. Motor started to lose power and when I squeezed bulb came back to life - twice then died. Fuel coming out top of carb again. was 9 miles off shore and 20 miles from destination. Very much not good.

Working with Tohatsu North America. One comment was fuel cap as stated below. Anyone have any experience with this?

"This may help us find the issue. I have had a few issues with the new EPA regulation fuel cap. At times it will not allow the fuel to flow to the fuel pump because the inlet valve has to be aggressive enough to withstand the new 5 psi pressure law. I can help the dealer check for this, but it must be at one of our dealers to help."

Paul - note that the Sailpro does not have the internal fuel tank and is too long. I wanted 20 inch shaft not 25 and internal as well as external. First motor upgrading was only way and cost me $100 more thana sailpro. Second time there was a 6hp in similar configuraton but was more expensive

Losing faith in this engine which was built exactly to my specs and needs. Now cancelling trips as I do not have trust in it. Need help from all sources.

Mike
 

pvanv

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Re: Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

Mike,

The EPA fuel cap could allow too much vacuum, which could prevent fuel from making it to the pump... similar to not opening the vent on the tank (of a conventional, non-EPA cap). We haven't had a cap with that problem, but it is indeed possible. If that did happen, the motor would starve for fuel, and the bulb might collapse. Since the bulb is technically under suction when the motor is running, the bulb will not necessarily be hard when running, but it should not collapse.

That is the opposite of the "fuel overflowing the carb" problem, which is definitely a flooding condition -- too much fuel. It appears that you may have 2 distinct problems. If you were our customer, especially considering the 30-mile trips you take, at this point, since the carb was already rebuilt (I'm assuming with a new kit), we would probably change out the carb under warranty to rule out potential problems with the float/needle/seat (the flooding problem). I might also install a non-EPA fuel cap for testing purposes. If the bulb holds up well with the conventionally-vented cap, you have found a problem with the EPA cap... if so, a replacement cap is called for.

The SailPro is available (in 2013) in either L or XL lengths. In prior years, you would have definitely wanted to have the motor built as you did, in order to get both tanks, and the HT prop in the L shaft length.
 

mikehoyt

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Oct 22, 2007
Messages
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Re: Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

Thanks Paul

Motor is now at another Tohatsu dealer who has taken more interest in it. Also Alan from Tohatsu has been very good at providing support and will work with the dealer. I did see a new sailpro and thought it looked 20 inches

Mike
 

pvanv

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Apr 20, 2008
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Re: Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

Having worked with Alan on some interesting problems, and having taken training classes from him, I can say that you are in the best of hands. I'm confident he'll see you through.
 

Manoj77

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Jun 8, 2013
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Re: Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

I was following this post with interest. How did it all turn out in the end?
 

skipper123

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May 17, 2010
Messages
74
Re: Tohatsu MFS4BL no love

Me too what the heck happened with this motor ? We got to know as I might have the same issues. I got a lot of reading on this thread with no results.
 
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