Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

J@mes

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Hi there,

I have a Tohatsu 50hp TLDI outboard on my Tohatsu 4.2m rib and with the stock aluminium prop, 11.1 x 13, according to GPS I can hit 39mph at WOT (6k rpm from memory) on my own in the boat. I have looked at the Tohatsu properller chart and it says the maximum I can fit is a 11 x 15 pitch prop. I am courious as to how much extra top speed this would give me? I appreciate it is very hard to say with all the variables etc, but what would your guestimate be? 2mph, 4mph increase or more? I have never changed/played with props before so have no idea and would like a rough guestimate before spending money to find out I have only gained 1mph! lol.

Thanks for your help,

James
 

steelespike

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

I suspect that your speed is a little optimistic because your slip would only be 2% not impossible but unlikely.
Using a little more reasonable slip of 10% your speed with the 13 would be about 35.9 @ 6000rpm.
A 1" pitch increase would drop the rpm about 150 to 200 rpm So we'll call your 15"pitch rpm 5600 with 10% slip
your speed would be about 38.6.
By the way my limited info indicates your motor is rated at 5700. So your over revving a bit.And a 15 should produce a better wot rpm.
 

jestor68

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

RPM range is 5150-5850. Gear ratio is 1.85.

You can throttle back, put the 15 pitch prop on there, or take another person with to pull the rpm down a little with the 13 pitch. Running it over the maximum recommended rpm will shorten the life of the motor.

As far as speed goes; the 13 @ 6000 rpm equals a theoretical 40 mph; while the 15 pitch at 5600 rpm equals a theoretical 43 mph.

Is it one of these? photo.jpg
 
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steelespike

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

[Q
As far as speed goes; the 13 @ 6000 rpm equals a theoretical 40 mph; while the 15 pitch at 5600 rpm equals a theoretical 43 mph.


This seems to confirm about 3 mph difference using a real life 10% slip.
 

J@mes

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

First of all thanks guys for your replies! :)

I suspect that your speed is a little optimistic because your slip would only be 2% not impossible but unlikely.
Using a little more reasonable slip of 10% your speed with the 13 would be about 35.9 @ 6000rpm.
A 1" pitch increase would drop the rpm about 150 to 200 rpm So we'll call your 15"pitch rpm 5600 with 10% slip
your speed would be about 38.6.
By the way my limited info indicates your motor is rated at 5700. So your over revving a bit.And a 15 should produce a better wot rpm.

Actually my GPS which I have in mph 99% of the time said 39mph but when I put it in km/h it was 62km/h = 38.525mph, thought I would say as you spent time working out my slip!

RPM range is 5150-5850. Gear ratio is 1.85.

You can throttle back, put the 15 pitch prop on there, or take another person with to pull the rpm down a little with the 13 pitch. Running it over the maximum recommended rpm will shorten the life of the motor.

As far as speed goes; the 13 @ 6000 rpm equals a theoretical 40 mph; while the 15 pitch at 5600 rpm equals a theoretical 43 mph.

Solas offers a SS New Saturn 15 pitch prop for your motor, for even more performance. You'll be able to run the motor height a hole higher with the SS prop, gaining even more performance. That switch(and set up change) could result in as much as 5-6 mph increase.

Is it one of these? View attachment 195281

No thats not the my boat!

As far as speed goes; the 13 @ 6000 rpm equals a theoretical 40 mph; while the 15 pitch at 5600 rpm equals a theoretical 43 mph.

This seems to confirm about 3 mph difference using a real life 10% slip.

So it would appear you both think I could gain about 3mph by changing from an 11.1 x 13 prop to an 11 x 15 prop.

I should have really given you guys more info from my original post, so here goes...

From memory with my dad in the boat (+ 85kg) the top speed is 35mph and I think the WOT is slightly less, maybe 5800 rpm.

RPM... As stated it would appear I am over revving at 6000 rpm on my own in the boat at WOT. My manual says my Tohatsu 50hp TLDI WOT revs should be between 5150 - 5850 rpm. Though I must say I do not trust my OEM Tachometer!!! I know it is not accurate as when I am on idle, 700rpm (though by pushing the engine key in for a second I can raise it to 800 rpm and pushing it once again raises it to 900 rpm and if you push it again it goes back down, 800 and then to 700, and then back up...) but my tachometer from memory shows the idle as only 500 rpm (when I know its really 700 rpm as controlled by the ECU) so this would indicate my tachometer under reads very low down in the rev range, and the fact it indicates 6000 rpm (from memory!) at WOT when I'm on my own in the boat would indicate it is over reading because the engine/ecu has a rev limiter, from memory at 6150 rpm, which has not kicked in before and I have not received any fault codes showing over revving has occurred, assuming it would?!

Or maybe my tachometer is reading fairly accurately top end when indicating 6k rpm, and maybe by fitting an 11 x 15 prop it would indicate about 5800 rpm at WOT with just me in the boat, and say about 5600 rpm with me and my dad in the boat, either way that brings me into the 5150 - 5850 rpm range at WOT like the manual suggests/recommends!

Also I just noticed on the Tohatsu chart is also states the stock prop 11.1 x 13 is for a boat with a moderate weight load (500-1500 lb.) but it says for a light weight load (100-500 lb.) then a 11.1 x 14 or 11 x 15 prop is recommended. Well according to this I only ever have a light weight load, with just me and my dad!! I now appreciate its very hard to guess and that every boat is different, but with their loading advice in mind and the fact my rib is not a heavy rib (116kg bare boat + 95kg engine + weight of battery/consol/steering/fuel etc I would conservatively guess absolute MAX of 300kg all in) so I would have therefore thought an 11 x 15 prop would be ideal for my rib?! Maybe my tachometer is showing a true 6000rpm and the fact my rib is not that heavy it has the power to spin the 11.1 x 13 prop at that rpm, hence a bigger pitched prop would be ideal to lower the rpm?!

I don't know! Sorry to go on!! I know its not ideal my tachometer under reads at idle so that puts doubts into its accuracy, but to be honest I don't want to and won't go down the route of changing the tachometer, its the OEM Tohatsu one that came with the engine, and my complete package was installed at the Tohatsu UK headquarters 11 months ago, so its not like I installed it! lol.

So going back to the original question, you guys think I could potentially achieve a 3mph increase in top speed (8% increase), well to be perfectly honest I feel a bit begrudged to spend ?150 for a brand new OEM 11 x 15 prop or about ?115 for a brand new 11 x 15 Solas Amita 3 propeller for that increase, BUT I have been looking around and I have found an unused in water second hand 13 spline 11 x 15 prop which I can get for ?30 (it looks in very good condition) BUT I am a little cautious whether this will fit. Basically the seller bought it a year ago from a guy who never used it, it just sat in his garage. The seller bought it for his Suzuki DT50 which is a 13 spline but it would not fit properly. Unfortunately it doesn't come with a box so we don't know the make and there is no part number stamp on it, just the size! He said... "It does fit along the splines OK, but just doesn?t sit properly when in place and feels as though it rubs against the base of the prop shaft when I turn it by hand, possibly just needs a spacer but I?ve two other props that fit and work OK so I?m loather to fiddle more. There?s no problem with it, it just doesn?t fit a Suzuki, but I do understand your concern..."

Here's some pics...
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/__james_/001.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/__james_/002.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c24/__james_/004.jpg

What are your guys thoughts? Should I risk it for a biscuit?! Unfortunately my boat is in Spain, so it is not a simple task to check whether it fits, though I am next out there in 3 weeks, but it is the hassle of taking it there in my hand luggage on the plane as well as the money if it doesn't fit! Obviously if it fits and works I will be very happy for ?30!

I did a google search to see if Suzuki props would fit my outboard, but no joy, though I found these two threads, which indicate Suzuki prop housing/gear cases are a slightly different size...
post # 6 here.... How interchagable are props? - RIBnet Forums
post # 7 here... http://forums.iboats.com/prop-quest...-13-spline-prop-fit-omc-13-spline-589766.html

If you guys think from what I have told/shown you that this unknown make 11 x 15 prop will fit my outboard then I will probably give it a try.

Once again, sorry to go on and thanks for your time/help!

James :)
 

steelespike

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

I would be inclined to go with a new prop.You know it will fit,that its a sound prop that will likely out perform your unknown prop.
I think your motor will be happier with the 15 over the 13.
 

J@mes

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

Thanks for your advice, I don't think I will go for the unknown prop. I now need to shop around, the best price I can find an 11 x 15 prop for my outboard is ?105 delivered. I wonder is this worth the bang for buck?! Though if it made my engine run in a safer/happier rpm range at WOT I guess that would be a good thing!

Don't suppose you know any cheap websites for props?

Thanks again,
James.
 

steelespike

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

I guess your from out of town? lol. You can get Solas props right here at iboats Don't know if they ship "out of town"
Have you tried just searching using Solas Props
First site I looked at getaprop.com had power tech for $81 I have no idea how they perform.
Also had Solas Amita for about $90 Don't now about shipping. Solas are state of the art for aluminum props.
 

J@mes

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

If I was to buy a new 11 x 15 prop, do you think I should get a Solas one or an OEM Tohatsu one? From the few pictures I have seen online, dare I say they look very similar, maybe even Solas produce the OEM Tohatsu props?!

Yes I am out of town lol, in the UK! I think I need to do some shopping around online!
 

steelespike

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

It has been said that Solas supplies props to Yamaha. But I wouldn't assume anyone else.
Solas does use "squeeze cast technology"Said to make a stronger finer prop.
I believe Turning point uses Squeeze cast as well.
 

J@mes

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

Well from the quick search I have done, the SOLAS Amita is the cheapest and easiest prop for me to buy online at about ?100 delivered whether I buy online from a UK company or get it sent over the pond to here!
 

steelespike

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

That looks like a good deal.
Don't lose sight of the fact that you're hole shot will slow a little and will react more to added weight.
But I would expect these things to be in a normal range.
 

J@mes

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

I was expecting my hole shot to suffer slightly, but I am not worried about this because It is very good at present!

When you say "will react to added weight" do you mean the hole shot, or in general throughout the rev range?! Also something I have not thought about, will the lowest rpm that the boat planes at change with a 15" prop from the standard 13" prop? I guess so and it will need more throttle to get onto plane?! Is this correct?

Lastly changing subject slightly, (not getting much response on another thread on another forum) are you familiar with TLDI engines? I want to know if you can hear the rev limiter when it kicks in, like you can in car, or is it silent?!

Once again, thanks for your help! =D
 

steelespike

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

Well hole shot will be affected by added weight as with any boat.
Weight will also slow the boats top end again as with any boat.But your at an ideal wot rpm
so performance should be reasonable.
Theoretically the boat will be faster at any given rpm.Planing speed will be at a different rpm.
I'm not acquainted with the TLDI specifics.
 

J@mes

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

Ok once again thanks, though last question... Out of interest do you think the lowest planing speed will be at a higher rpm or a lower rpm with a 15" prop compared to what it is now with a 13" prop? I assume a higher rpm?! Thanks! =)
 

J@mes

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

Right thought I would come back here. Despite your advice I had decided to not bother changing props and stick with the stock 11.1 x 13 one (mainly because of time/money/hassle) but after double checking my WOT rpm?s I was a little shocked at my findings! :cold:

First of all that high pitch noise which I could often hear at WOT with just me in the boat IS the rev limiter! With the wind and engine noise it was hard to make out but when I put my head close to the throttle/control box I realised it was making a constant beep noise when I am at 6000 rpm at WOT. I looked in my manual and it says the rev limiter kicks in at approx 6000 rpm and emits a constant beep noise! :facepalm: I have also checked the WOT rpm with my dad and I in the boat and its 5800 rpm, and also with my mum, dad and myself the WOT is 5500 rpm.

So after double checking my WOT rpm's with different loads, I think I definitely need to change my prop for a bigger pitch just for the sake of my engine as its over revving with just me in the boat! The manual says WOT should be 5150 ? 5850 rpm. I can go to a 11.1 x 14 or 11 x 15 according to Tohatsu. I think I would prefer the 11 x 15 as it will give me a better top speed which I prefer to acceleration.

How much rpm do you loose by going up 1? in pitch though? I think someone said before it's 100 rpm, in which case with an 11 x 15 prop and 3 up in my boat WOT should be about 5300 rpm which is within the recommended WOT range.

I can get the OEM Tohatsu 11 x 15 prop for ?165 delivered, a Solas 11 x 15 for ?120 delivered or a Vortex 10 x 15 for ?95 delivered.

Unfortunately price is a factor in my decision and therefore I would go for the Solas over the OEM as it?s the correct size and after a bit of research I have only found good things about Solas. What about this Vortex one though? I am put off by the fact it is 10? diameter instead of 11?. What difference would this make? Would it help the engine rev ever so slightly easier due to the slightly smaller diameter? If so maybe this would be a good thing, though that said Tohatsu recommend 11 x 15, not 10 x 15!

Thanks again for your help! :)
 

steelespike

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

A 1" pitch change nets 150-200 rpm change. So the 15 should produce 300 to 400 rpm decrease.
The 11 X 15 Solas should work well with a touch more speed and a little slower holesot.
 

J@mes

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

ok cool. What do you think of this 10 x 15 Vortex prop though? What difference would a 10" diameter make to an 11" diameter? (Both with a 15" pitch.) Thanks.
 

Sea Rider

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

Stay with the factory diam specified for that engine, just optimize wot rpm with pitch. Wild purchasing guesses are no good in terms of performance and money going down the drain, unless you have a full box of props in all diam and pitches to test for that particular engine. Go for a pitch that will achieve max rpm before rev limiter kicks in with you alone and lightly loaded rib.

Happy Boating
 
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J@mes

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Re: Tohatsu 50HP Prop advice needed...

Stay with the factory diam specified for that engine, just optimize wot rpm with pitch. Wild purchasing guesses are no good in terms of performance and money going down the drain, unless you have a full box of props in all diam and pitches to test for that particular engine. Go for a pitch that will achieve max rpm before rev limiter kicks in with you alone and lightly loaded rib.

Happy Boating

In that case I should prob go for the 11.1 x 14 prop?! The thing is I dont know how much above the rev limiter I would be revving to if the limiter wasn't there if you see what I mean?! I would guess I could hit 6100 rpm now because the rpm drops by 300 each time i have an extra person in the boat.

so I think with an 11.1 x 14 prop WOT with just me in the boat would prob be 5800 rpm, 50rpm below the max recommended! But I'm just guessing!
 
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