today I have reached a new level of anger

[miloman]

Today I was reading the paper. I get to a full page article about gas gouging. Here in Toronto I pay almost 85C a litre go figure. It can flucuate not only daily or hourly, but with different gas stations of the same company within 10 minutes of eachother. Case in point Shell by my house was 77c a litre 4 blocks up the street it was 89c a litre. What really got my engine was the 5.6 billion in net profits the gas companies made last year. Im sick of this gouge, in fact as I started to look at everything else all I see is gouging grigeries cigarettes water almost everyting outthere geeeez. Is it that bad there in American

 

[Toad2001]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Hi miloman,<br /><br />Here in Vancouver it was 101.5 cents for regular last week.<br /><br />Prices have since dropped a bit and I just filled up with premium at a "bargain" price of 105.9 cents/litre.<br /><br />Ouch.

 

[JB]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Companies everywhere are forced to make a profit, Miloman.<br /><br />When they have to pay more, they have to charge more. When the taxes go up, the prices go up.<br /><br />We, who own them (I have a few paltry shares of Exxon-Mobil) expect return on our investment. Right now the market value of our shares are falling and the return on our investment is less than a good government bond. . .like 2-3%.<br /><br />I have never understood why some people think earning a profit is immoral. That is what capitalism is all about. <br /><br />How many billions do you think it cost to earn that 5.7 billion profit you think is so outrageous? 300 billion? 500 billion?

 

[Boomyal]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Originally posted by JB:<br /> I have never understood why some people think earning a profit is immoral. That is what capitalism is all about.

Easy answer JB. It's because our educational system is now run by socialists. They don't teach about capitalism in a way that "young skulls full of mush" come away with a deep appreciation and understanding of the subject. In essence the NEA allows a vacuum to be created which gets filled by the likes of a John Kerry et al, who continues to bash business, incourage dependency and promote the ethic of "corporate" (not business) responsibility.

 

[Copespitter]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Price gouging is definately going on. <br />Plywood for example: The lumber industry raised the price almost a 100% on a sheet of plywood because the U.S. goverment bought 10 freight cars full of plywood to send to Afghanistan or was it Iraq? Usually if a company sells alot more of a product the price goes down. The lumber industry just used it as an excuse to jack the price up. How American is that?<br />Look at the Beef industry. Ranchers are making more money than ever because they claim the Atkins diet is putting a strain on the supply of beef. Why should the price of beef go up when their selling more of it? <br />The oil companys have a monopoly on the market and can charge what they want. You never hear of them losing money. I hear of General Motors losing money at times as well as several other companys. <br />Its a little strange since Bush has been in office that Oil,timber,beef, and power has shot up in price.

 

[Bigfun]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Price gouging is just another in a long line of word(s) or phrases that the libs have re-defined in order to gain a emotional reaction. Ignorance is truly bliss.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

JB is right on this. The profit numbers are always thrown around to invoke an emotional response but the gas related stocks are not as good an investment as a bond or even the S&P. Take the price of a gallon of gas in 1984 and apply just the cost of living change and you will see what a deal a gallon of gas is. <br /><br />Yes, boiled down it means I have to change my ways but it is how the market works.

 

[Homerr]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Same thing going on here....<br /><br />Tell me why Oregon is typically HIGHER than everyone else?<br /><br />We have less people than Calipornia or Washington... that means less drivers, yet we have the highest prices?<br /><br />Don't tell me that it's because it costs more to get it here... I live on a major Interstate Highway, so it's not like th truckers are going out of their way to deliver goods and services here.<br /><br />For example... I go over to Eastern Oregon from time to time ina small 'hole-in-the-wall' town. Out in the middle of BFE... Practically a ghost town... Well guess what their gas prices are? CHEAPER!<br /><br />Go figure that one?<br /><br />Talk about gouging!<br /><br />By the way... gas prices here seems to be an average $2.25/gal for regular.<br />I've seen it go up $.10 a day at 2 different stations (Shell and 76) I've been watching.<br />I've even seen it go up from the time I see it in the morning to the lunch in the afternoon.<br /><br />Funny thing is...you can go right across a bridge to a Pilot station, and it's $.08 cheaper!<br /><br />Our Arco is the cheapest around, but that particular station was adding a surcharge to every debit card transaction the last time I got gas from them. I never went back because of that.<br />I thought they passed law that banned them from placing surcharges on debit cards... maybe Arco stopped doing it.<br /><br /><br />H.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Be sure to elect John Kerry, he will fix all your woes. He promised!

 

[rogerwa]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Copespitter, unless I missed something from my econ classes, increased demand will increase prices so long as supply remains the same. Increased supply without increased demand will lower prices.<br /><br />Its when our prices go up when supply and demand is consistent and 'aberrations' in the supply chain are blamed that it gets a little murky.<br /><br />Our prices in Mpls have been about $1.85/gal. I can still afford to fill up my Expedition.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Boomyal, Keery actually voted to fix our woes before he voted against fixing them..

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

profits are a good thing... huge executive salaries<br />and golden parachutes for execs. bother me more.

 

[Copespitter]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Your right Rogerwa.<br />Lets see here, have we ever in the last 10 years run out of gas. NO, atleast not in my neck of the woods. They call it supply and demand but the supply is always there.<br />We never got low on plywood or beef.<br />Its just a bunch of b.s. to jack the prices up.<br />It seems G.W. has alot of friends in these industries.

 

[18rabbit]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Homerr – the highest prices for gasoline in the US (48 states) is right here in the San Francisco Bay Area. Oil is shipped from Long Beach straight out 25 miles*, turn right and go up the coast, turn right again and into SF Bay. There are numerous refineries here in the East bay area. The gasoline is shipped (boat and truck) back down to Long Beach, 350+ miles away. That gasoline costs less in Long Beach than it does here, where it was refined. A couple weeks ago we were at $2.17/gal for regular at the bargain pumps, $2.12/gal at Costco's member prices.<br /><br />The two Senators that keep wetting their pants about a federal investigation into price gouging are Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein; both are California’s Senators.<br /><br />Oregon has that stupid law where you can’t put your own gas into your own car. You are paying for gas and hired help…but you don’t get your windows cleaned…unless you do that by yourself!<br /><br />*Note: the oil tankers used to ship 12 miles off the coast but a study of sea otter habitat showed that, due to ocean currents, a catastrophic failure of a vessel full of crude oil 12 miles out could wipeout the entire sea otter population in one spill. ARCo is the only company that took it upon themselves to use only double-hulled tankers and they have always gone out 25 miles to protect the California coastline, since the early 70’s, before it was a requirement established in the late 90’s. Fwiw, ARCo wasn’t concerned with keeping things beautiful, they understood the company could not survive the liability should happen. Exxon was slow to learn.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

"It seems G.W. has alot of friends in these industries."<br /><br />Could you provide us the direct link between GW and those who set the gas prices. I shook hands with him once, but I assure you I'm not to blame.<br /><br />Does this mean Jimmy Carter was plugged in as well?

 

[miloman]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

JB i have no issues with profits. Here is my understanding correct me if Im wrong. It takes 6 months for oil pumped from the ground to reach the consumer. The price of supply refinment etc doesnt change 15 to 30 % in a day. I understand that the cost of oil is more, thats a given but ooil is not flucuating 10 to 30 % on a daily basis yet the price of gas does here. Can that be explained in any other manner other then gouging

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

it's called a "free market economy" milo...<br /><br />if u was sellin widgets for $1.00 and your cost<br />was $.50ea and for some reason, the cost went<br />up to $.75ea, u would raise sales price to cover<br />actual stock replacement costs right?

 

[kd6nem]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Hey Copespitter,<br />Be careful about who you say is raking in all the cash. Last I saw the union truck drivers, grocery clerks, supermarket managers, meat cutters, shareholders & others all take a cut out of the "meat pie". I doubt the one who takes the biggest risk, does the most work for the longest time gets paid nearly as much as the others. The ranchers and farmers get the least money of anyone. My dad lost his farm while the grocers got wealthy. Maybe the corporate farms are doing ok (they ought to be, they get all the @#$%&! subsidies. The family farmer just gets the runaround with more and more regulations) I don't mind seeing anyone making a living, but understand it is not the farmer who is getting rich by any means. Small farms are either supported by additional outside careers so the farm lifestyle can be kept, or the farmers are bailing out because they can't compete with cheap imports and still pay their bills. I'm as cheap as they come- I like low prices too. But I would like to see the farmer get a fair shake in this deal, but I don't see anything like that until the farmers band together and demand it. Not likely to happen on any large scale. More imports would just take the domestic product's place. When I see fruit going for $1.30 a pound and going up at any excuse, it makes me sick to think the farmer is getting probably less than a cent a pound profit in the best years and takes a loss in other years. No one else is sharing in that risk, but they sure will happily take the profit.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Originally posted by rogerwa:<br /> Boomyal, Keery actually voted to fix our woes before he voted against fixing them..

<br /><br />Yeah, I know, or at least something like that. He wanted to bleed our strategic oil reserves to bring the price down.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: today I have reached a new level of anger

Originally posted by Copespitter:<br /> It seems G.W. has alot of friends in these industries.

Hmmm! I didn't know that 'ol GW had diversified. Thought he was so busy stuffing his pockets (along with Cheney, of course) with illicit oil profits that he didn't have time for anything else.