Tail_Gunner
Admiral
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Messages
- 6,237
For myself this is the most infromative thread i have read....Sticky ????
http://forum.chaparralboats.com/index.php?showtopic=13471
Marine Oils Ain't Special
If you spend a lifetime talking to both the R&D guys and the organic chemists that support their efforts, you will get confirmation on all your suspicions. All the "factory approved" oils must come from somewhere. Merc and Volvo don't make oil. They give various suppliers a set of performance criteria and take the low bid. They then test the oil to make sure it meets their minimum standard and then have it stuck in their bottle. With cars it's easy. The spec is not very aggressive. Honda Certified Motor Oil is actually Mobil Clean 5000. The bottom of the food chain. Will it get you through the warranty? Sure. Can you do better? You bet. I don't know about you guys, but I like the fact that I just sold our Oldsmobile with 386,000 miles on it. You ain't going to get there on Mobil Clean 5000, but we did with Mobil-1.
The marine oil spec is a bit more aggressive, but the stuff still is not a blend to order product. It is a re-brand of an existing high performance motor oil. A blend to order product for that limited market would be $12/quart. Oil batches are either blended in an in-line blender where a row of meters proportionally blend the correct components at the rate of around 400 gallons per minute, or they are batch blended by hand in 9,000 gallon kettles at a very high cost premium. Some specialty lubes get made that way, but they cost a fortune.
The exposure that the marine industry has now is that all the newer generation car engines are going for increased fuel economy. This means lighter engine components and tighter tolerances which allow for the use of really thin oils. Heavy oils create parasitic drag wasting fuel and robbing horsepower. Also, reduced windage in the crankcase results from not having as much wetted surface oil throw-off to control. As the crank runs into the oil being thrown off the bearing surfaces, a rope effect occurs that drags the rotating assembly down. Tighter tolerances and thinner oils limit that effect. Marine engines cannot be manufactured to such tight tolerances as the higher component loads generate more thermal expansion. Build them that tight and they will seize up at operating temperature. Try to use light oils in them and they will beat themselves to death. Problem is that more and more oil compounder's are finding it necessary to eliminate their marine friendly oils as they are being forced to blend more flavors of the really thin specialized stuff, which is their bread and butter.
If you think Marine Oils are a "special secret formula", you're wrong. Will they get you to 1,000 hours on a gasoline engine? I've yet to see it but maybe if you change it often enough. I'll see you guys on the north side of the 1,000 hour club with my Mobil-1.
RECREATIONAL MARINE OILS...
I've followed the oil controversy for some time, and read the comments with interest, but it seems that most opinions are simple statements without any technical reference. I'm not a subject matter expert by any means, but have worked with some of the top Lube Chemists and Application Engineers in the business, and hopefully will be able to remove some of the apparent mystery surrounding "Marine Spec" oils.
First of all let's identify the fundamental differences between an automotive engine and a recreational marine application. Cars typically use a moderate percentage of their available horsepower to achieve cruising speed, then a much lower percentage to maintain said speed. A marine engine as we know is constantly loaded like a truck climbing a mountain and never reaching the top. As such, the marine engine combustion chamber temperatures are, on average, significantly higher than a comparably sized automotive engine. This alone creates a need for an extreme pressure component to be deposited on the cylinder walls to prevent compression ring and piston skirt scuffing. Marine engines are also jetted fatter on their fuel curve, and use a much colder spark plug. Control of ignition timing is also much more critical. The good news is that there is an inexhaustible supply of cooling water available to help with other related excess heat issues.
Secondly, engine oils have a propensity to attract moisture. With the boat sitting at the marina for weeks on end, marine oil will typically have an emulsifier added to help keep the oil in suspension until the next engine heat cycle drives out the moisture. If "moist" used oil is left in the crankcase say over the winter, it is not uncommon for acids to form which attack the lead/iridium coating on the engine main and rod bearings, leading to failure during the first cold start of the next season.
Let's set these two issues aside for now, and discuss the primary mission of motor oils. Most people think lubrication, and although lubricity is important, the primary purpose is to remove heat. To accomplish this, the oil must be in the right place at the right time and stay there until its mission is accomplished. Different oils achieve this utilizing different approaches.
Mineral based oils as pulled from the ground and refined have a multitude of different sized molecules. Quite simply, the medium sized ones do a pretty good job right out of the box. The big ones hang in there on a 90 degree plus day, but start to turn to tar as temperatures grow cold. As stated before, oil does no good if it's not where it's needed when it's needed. Cold start-up can be a problem with straight weight conventional oils for the first few seconds. To help with this, blenders add a pour depressant additive to the mix which tends to free up these big fat molecules as the temperatures fall.
The small molecules do not have a low pour point issue and will flow quite well at colder temperatures; however they have a nasty habit of vaporizing out the exhaust when temperatures climb. Another additive known as a viscosity improver attaches to these guys, and helps them to thicken as the temperature goes up. This is how 20W-50 oil can act as a 20 weight in winter and a 50 weight as temperatures elevate.
Lastly, in an extreme pressure application such as the cylinder wall to piston skirt scuffing phenomena common to marine engines, a blender will utilize an extreme pressure additive to negate this exposure. These materials, typically heavy metals, will deposit themselves into the tiny scratches in the cylinders and pistons providing a barrier of dry lubricant which stays in place until the carrier oil has an opportunity to deposit a new batch during the next splash cycle. These compounds can be moly-lithium-disulfide, zinc, graphite, lead, iso-sulfinates, and iso-calsinates (sulfur or calcium).
Marine oils and specifically the Merc oil blend that many of you defend so strongly achieves the required marine certifications in several ways. An anti-corrosion additive keeps the excess moisture at bay, while the viscosity enhancer and pour depressant make their base oil stable over a broader operating range.
Sounds like we have it all covered, but there are a few negative qualities to these additives. The heavy metals need to be use in precise quantities and need to stay in suspension in order to be effective. Too little in the mix due to poor quality control, or additive fall-out in the oil pan, and the skirts are going to get scratched. Too much, and this stuff ends up in the combustion chamber as tiny little blobs of glitter that glow at superheated temperatures causing pre-ignition like you would not believe.
The pour depressants, viscosity improvers, and moisture dispersants seem harmless enough, but they all have one thing in common. They decrease the carrier oil's base line lubricity. That's not a good thing.
I think the Merc oil is fine and if that is what makes you happy keep using it. But I think we can do better under certain circumstances. Engine builders are notorious for being slow to accept changing lubrication technology. They want oil that they can get in limited quantity in their bottle at a cheap price. It needs to get them through their warranty period, but not necessarily make their engine last forever. It's only when their customers insist on a better mouse trap are they forced to provide one. That's what drove Merc to develop their new full synthetic. A case in point is Honda factory approved 5w-20 premium motor oil. Available at their dealer network, this stuff is actually Mobil Clean 5000. That?s the bottom of the food chain at Mobil. Will it go 5,000 miles in your new Acura and get you to the end of the warranty period. You bet. Can you do better for your new ride? You bet.
So what about Synthetics? Remember the molecule size discussion earlier? Mobil-1 is made from PAO ester base oil manufactured by Mobil Chemical. They take a base fluid and through catalyst technology are able to re-arrange things at the molecular level ending up with a base oil with nothing but the medium sized molecules we are looking for, which is stable over the complete operating temperature range. Straight out of the tank, it can out perform the best conventional oils, without the need for additives. Mobil has developed special additive packages to enhance these formulations even further to the point where these oils can do things never thought possible.
I've used these oils in our fleet of recreational boaters since they came out. High Performance and Heavy Cruisers alike, I've seen overheating due to raw water pump failure where the exhaust bellows have burned off, and the head gaskets have failed, but the cylinder walls, valve guides, and main and rod bearings were undamaged. I have actually seen a piston from Kyle Petty's NASCAR engine that drove back to the pits in Daytona after an accident, without water in the block. The top of the piston was melted, but the cylinder wall was unharmed.
Why Mobil-1 is not marine certified? Well because it's a small volume sale that requires an upfront expenditure. Also, I would not let dirty Mobil-1 sit in my engine during winter lay-up as it is not loaded up with moisture dispersant. What about viscosity enhancers, pour depressants, and extreme pressure additives? Doesn't need them and as stated before they tend to reduce lubricity. Ain't broke, don't fix it.
I see mileage and WOT increases in every case after switching to 15W-50 Mobil-1 in recreational marine applications. I drop it at 100 hours or at season's end. Fill her with fresh and wait for summer. Your choice, but I hope this helps with the decision making process.
SYNTHETIC OILS...
I had posted comments relative to recreational marine oils, and have had several inquires asking if this or that oil is a good choice. My answer is "your guess is as good as mine". I use Mobil-1 for the reasons I stated. I would however like to attempt to clarify the term "Synthetic" as applied to today's oils as marketed.
PAO esters were developed to replace mineral base oils which have been in use since the introduction of the internal combustion engine. Mineral oil's suitability for blending into lubricating oil base stocks depends on the crude source and refining process utilized. Keytone solvent base refining and clay filtration was utilized to remove the wax and other impurities from crude lube extracts for years, with the wax being sold as a consumer product. Nowadays, a hydrogen based process or hydro-treating is combined with different catalysts to produce a mineral base oil of high quality. A rating system was developed using a term known as "base number" whereas the higher number the better. These high base number blending stocks require fewer additives in order to produce a suitable consumer end product.
PAO esters are still today, the holy grail of base stocks as they out perform any mineral oil based compound by a long shot. Because these PAO fluids are proprietary, are extremely expensive to produce and are backed up with limited production capability, the remainder of the industry was scrambling back in the early 1990's for a cheaper alternative in order to enter the lucrative synthetic market. Enter the "severely hydro-treated" mineral base oils like Royal Purple and others.
Refiners began to market these high base number mineral oils as "Synthetic" The PAO contingent sued as they felt that identifying these severely hydro treated base oils as a pure synthetic was out right fraud. As there were no government standards at that time for synthetic oils, the courts claimed that no one could actually claim what constituted a synthetic, and what was not. I feel that this was a true disservice to the consumer, as now the market is flooded with "synthetic oils" and we as consumers do not know which are true PAO esters and which are high base number want-a-bee's.
My feeling is this. Unless you have documented performance records over a long period of time for yours or a similar application, don't experiment. The trouble is that when we arrive at the parts store, all the bottles look alike. For example, I will always use Mobil-1 15w-50 extended performance in my 496 Mag-HO as I truly feel that it's the best I can get, and much better than it actually has to be. On the other hand, I would not put Quaker State , Royal Purple, or several others in my lawn mower due to my own personal experience. If you are not experienced, stick with the Merc oil or the Volvo oil. If you are set on an alternative, compare it's specification to the Mobil-1 data below. If your supplier refuses to provide the data, keep looking.
Mobil-1 15w-50?
API Certifications SF,SG,SH,CD
General Motors 6048-M, 6049-M, 6085-M,
Ford M2C153E
Total Base Number 12
Sulfated Ash 1.3
HT/HS, cP @150 C
Low Temp Viscosity 3500 @ -15 (Cranking cP)
30,000@-20 (Pumping cP)
High Temperature Viscosity 5.6 cSt at 100C
API Gravity 30.2
Pour Point -55 F
Flash Point 470 F
SUS @ 100 F 556
SUS @ 210 F 90
V.I. 170
Lastly, I see some of you are using truck fleet type oils like Rotella-T and Mobil Delvac. Remember that these are diesel fleet oils which are a little high on zinc additives. Diesels love Zinc. Gasoline engines do not. A high speed marine engine will get some of these heavy metal particles into the combustion chambers, which are excessively hot in a boat application. This can cause pre-ignition in a gasoline application. Remember that this effect is how a diesel engine operates, and is also how a gas engine can beat itself to pieces.
Volvo markets their 30w Synthetic domestically as they have a contract with Amsoil. The Volvo Marine is a rebrand of one of Amsoil's stand offerings. Overseas Volvo Synthetic is a rebrand of Mobil-1 15-w 50 Extended Performance bottled at the ExxonMobil facility in Gravashon, France.
Amsoil has discontinued their 30w synthetic, so I'll bet that Volvo comes out with an "Improved" 20w 40 version of synthetic before the end of the year depending when their contract with Amsoil is up.
Link to Volvo SAE 30w synthetic:
http://www.volvopentastore.com/Synt...on_id.314737696--store_id.366--view_id.345107
Link to Volvo SAE 15w 50 synthetic:
http://www.volvo.com..._engine_oil.htm
Link to new Mercriuser Full Synthetic Oil
http://www.mertenmarine.com/servlet/the-359/MerCruiser-Full-Synthetic-Engine/Detail
Don't Use Volvo SAE-30w Synthetic Oil???????
I've followed our group's comments over the past weeks and have had PM's from several of you and one common theme seems to prevail. We are all looking for the quick black or white answer to what appears to be a very complex issue. I suggest that we try not to generalize too quickly and look at the individual facts based on the little information available to us.
A limited number of failures have occurred in Volvo 8.1's whereas the cam followers were flat spotted and the closing ramp of the cam profile showed evidence of the roller lifter sliding down the back side of the lobe, rather than rolling as it is designed to do. There was no evidence that this had occurred prior to the widespread usage of the Volvo SAE-30 synthetic oil.
Merc and Volvo all use the same base engine, however there are subtle differences. Volvo's approach to increasing output is to utilize a cam shaft with a little less gross valve lift and a slightly higher valve spring pressure. They achieve their power gains by opening the valves sooner and more aggressively, and waiting until the last possible moment before slamming it closed. Seems like the cam followers are just having a bit of trouble following the cam, even with the increased spring pressure.
Merc uses more total gross valve lift (bigger cam) and opens the valves more gradually, opens them a tad more, then gently closes the valves. They get away with less spring pressure but idle quality suffers a bit.
By putting conventional oil in an 8.1 Volvo, you increase parasitic drag somewhat, and the increase in friction evidently sets up a wear pattern during break-in that keeps the valve lifter trunion rotation intact. The real problem IMHO lies in a too aggressive cam profile, without the addition of adequately stiff valve springs to complement the 8.1's heavy intake valves.
Let's face it, if you had a choice of changing an oil specification, or changing out cams and intake valve springs as part of a mass recall, what would you do. Personally I don't think the Volvo SAE-30 will be around for too long as their contract supplier dropped it from their own line-up some time ago. As I said in the past, these oils are typically a re-brand of an existing offering produced by one of the majors.
If you have a Volvo 8.1, I'd either use the Volvo Synthetic as offered by their overseas distributors (actually Mobil-1 15w-50 E/P), or I'd use the new Merc full synthetic. (Blasphemy) I'm going for the new Merc oil in my 496 HO and the remainder of our "fleet" as soon as my supply of Mobil-1 15w-50 Extended Performance runs out, as ExxonMobil does not blend it domestically anymore. (Sad day for the boating, street rod, and drag race crowd.)
I think it is only a matter of time that documented Volvo owners get a notification about the use of Volvo SAE-30.
Link to Volvo SAE 15w 50 synthetic:
http://www.volvo.com..._engine_oil.htm
Link to new Mercriuser Full Synthetic Oil
http://www.mertenmar...c-Engine/Detail
http://forum.chaparralboats.com/index.php?showtopic=13471
Marine Oils Ain't Special
If you spend a lifetime talking to both the R&D guys and the organic chemists that support their efforts, you will get confirmation on all your suspicions. All the "factory approved" oils must come from somewhere. Merc and Volvo don't make oil. They give various suppliers a set of performance criteria and take the low bid. They then test the oil to make sure it meets their minimum standard and then have it stuck in their bottle. With cars it's easy. The spec is not very aggressive. Honda Certified Motor Oil is actually Mobil Clean 5000. The bottom of the food chain. Will it get you through the warranty? Sure. Can you do better? You bet. I don't know about you guys, but I like the fact that I just sold our Oldsmobile with 386,000 miles on it. You ain't going to get there on Mobil Clean 5000, but we did with Mobil-1.
The marine oil spec is a bit more aggressive, but the stuff still is not a blend to order product. It is a re-brand of an existing high performance motor oil. A blend to order product for that limited market would be $12/quart. Oil batches are either blended in an in-line blender where a row of meters proportionally blend the correct components at the rate of around 400 gallons per minute, or they are batch blended by hand in 9,000 gallon kettles at a very high cost premium. Some specialty lubes get made that way, but they cost a fortune.
The exposure that the marine industry has now is that all the newer generation car engines are going for increased fuel economy. This means lighter engine components and tighter tolerances which allow for the use of really thin oils. Heavy oils create parasitic drag wasting fuel and robbing horsepower. Also, reduced windage in the crankcase results from not having as much wetted surface oil throw-off to control. As the crank runs into the oil being thrown off the bearing surfaces, a rope effect occurs that drags the rotating assembly down. Tighter tolerances and thinner oils limit that effect. Marine engines cannot be manufactured to such tight tolerances as the higher component loads generate more thermal expansion. Build them that tight and they will seize up at operating temperature. Try to use light oils in them and they will beat themselves to death. Problem is that more and more oil compounder's are finding it necessary to eliminate their marine friendly oils as they are being forced to blend more flavors of the really thin specialized stuff, which is their bread and butter.
If you think Marine Oils are a "special secret formula", you're wrong. Will they get you to 1,000 hours on a gasoline engine? I've yet to see it but maybe if you change it often enough. I'll see you guys on the north side of the 1,000 hour club with my Mobil-1.
RECREATIONAL MARINE OILS...
I've followed the oil controversy for some time, and read the comments with interest, but it seems that most opinions are simple statements without any technical reference. I'm not a subject matter expert by any means, but have worked with some of the top Lube Chemists and Application Engineers in the business, and hopefully will be able to remove some of the apparent mystery surrounding "Marine Spec" oils.
First of all let's identify the fundamental differences between an automotive engine and a recreational marine application. Cars typically use a moderate percentage of their available horsepower to achieve cruising speed, then a much lower percentage to maintain said speed. A marine engine as we know is constantly loaded like a truck climbing a mountain and never reaching the top. As such, the marine engine combustion chamber temperatures are, on average, significantly higher than a comparably sized automotive engine. This alone creates a need for an extreme pressure component to be deposited on the cylinder walls to prevent compression ring and piston skirt scuffing. Marine engines are also jetted fatter on their fuel curve, and use a much colder spark plug. Control of ignition timing is also much more critical. The good news is that there is an inexhaustible supply of cooling water available to help with other related excess heat issues.
Secondly, engine oils have a propensity to attract moisture. With the boat sitting at the marina for weeks on end, marine oil will typically have an emulsifier added to help keep the oil in suspension until the next engine heat cycle drives out the moisture. If "moist" used oil is left in the crankcase say over the winter, it is not uncommon for acids to form which attack the lead/iridium coating on the engine main and rod bearings, leading to failure during the first cold start of the next season.
Let's set these two issues aside for now, and discuss the primary mission of motor oils. Most people think lubrication, and although lubricity is important, the primary purpose is to remove heat. To accomplish this, the oil must be in the right place at the right time and stay there until its mission is accomplished. Different oils achieve this utilizing different approaches.
Mineral based oils as pulled from the ground and refined have a multitude of different sized molecules. Quite simply, the medium sized ones do a pretty good job right out of the box. The big ones hang in there on a 90 degree plus day, but start to turn to tar as temperatures grow cold. As stated before, oil does no good if it's not where it's needed when it's needed. Cold start-up can be a problem with straight weight conventional oils for the first few seconds. To help with this, blenders add a pour depressant additive to the mix which tends to free up these big fat molecules as the temperatures fall.
The small molecules do not have a low pour point issue and will flow quite well at colder temperatures; however they have a nasty habit of vaporizing out the exhaust when temperatures climb. Another additive known as a viscosity improver attaches to these guys, and helps them to thicken as the temperature goes up. This is how 20W-50 oil can act as a 20 weight in winter and a 50 weight as temperatures elevate.
Lastly, in an extreme pressure application such as the cylinder wall to piston skirt scuffing phenomena common to marine engines, a blender will utilize an extreme pressure additive to negate this exposure. These materials, typically heavy metals, will deposit themselves into the tiny scratches in the cylinders and pistons providing a barrier of dry lubricant which stays in place until the carrier oil has an opportunity to deposit a new batch during the next splash cycle. These compounds can be moly-lithium-disulfide, zinc, graphite, lead, iso-sulfinates, and iso-calsinates (sulfur or calcium).
Marine oils and specifically the Merc oil blend that many of you defend so strongly achieves the required marine certifications in several ways. An anti-corrosion additive keeps the excess moisture at bay, while the viscosity enhancer and pour depressant make their base oil stable over a broader operating range.
Sounds like we have it all covered, but there are a few negative qualities to these additives. The heavy metals need to be use in precise quantities and need to stay in suspension in order to be effective. Too little in the mix due to poor quality control, or additive fall-out in the oil pan, and the skirts are going to get scratched. Too much, and this stuff ends up in the combustion chamber as tiny little blobs of glitter that glow at superheated temperatures causing pre-ignition like you would not believe.
The pour depressants, viscosity improvers, and moisture dispersants seem harmless enough, but they all have one thing in common. They decrease the carrier oil's base line lubricity. That's not a good thing.
I think the Merc oil is fine and if that is what makes you happy keep using it. But I think we can do better under certain circumstances. Engine builders are notorious for being slow to accept changing lubrication technology. They want oil that they can get in limited quantity in their bottle at a cheap price. It needs to get them through their warranty period, but not necessarily make their engine last forever. It's only when their customers insist on a better mouse trap are they forced to provide one. That's what drove Merc to develop their new full synthetic. A case in point is Honda factory approved 5w-20 premium motor oil. Available at their dealer network, this stuff is actually Mobil Clean 5000. That?s the bottom of the food chain at Mobil. Will it go 5,000 miles in your new Acura and get you to the end of the warranty period. You bet. Can you do better for your new ride? You bet.
So what about Synthetics? Remember the molecule size discussion earlier? Mobil-1 is made from PAO ester base oil manufactured by Mobil Chemical. They take a base fluid and through catalyst technology are able to re-arrange things at the molecular level ending up with a base oil with nothing but the medium sized molecules we are looking for, which is stable over the complete operating temperature range. Straight out of the tank, it can out perform the best conventional oils, without the need for additives. Mobil has developed special additive packages to enhance these formulations even further to the point where these oils can do things never thought possible.
I've used these oils in our fleet of recreational boaters since they came out. High Performance and Heavy Cruisers alike, I've seen overheating due to raw water pump failure where the exhaust bellows have burned off, and the head gaskets have failed, but the cylinder walls, valve guides, and main and rod bearings were undamaged. I have actually seen a piston from Kyle Petty's NASCAR engine that drove back to the pits in Daytona after an accident, without water in the block. The top of the piston was melted, but the cylinder wall was unharmed.
Why Mobil-1 is not marine certified? Well because it's a small volume sale that requires an upfront expenditure. Also, I would not let dirty Mobil-1 sit in my engine during winter lay-up as it is not loaded up with moisture dispersant. What about viscosity enhancers, pour depressants, and extreme pressure additives? Doesn't need them and as stated before they tend to reduce lubricity. Ain't broke, don't fix it.
I see mileage and WOT increases in every case after switching to 15W-50 Mobil-1 in recreational marine applications. I drop it at 100 hours or at season's end. Fill her with fresh and wait for summer. Your choice, but I hope this helps with the decision making process.
SYNTHETIC OILS...
I had posted comments relative to recreational marine oils, and have had several inquires asking if this or that oil is a good choice. My answer is "your guess is as good as mine". I use Mobil-1 for the reasons I stated. I would however like to attempt to clarify the term "Synthetic" as applied to today's oils as marketed.
PAO esters were developed to replace mineral base oils which have been in use since the introduction of the internal combustion engine. Mineral oil's suitability for blending into lubricating oil base stocks depends on the crude source and refining process utilized. Keytone solvent base refining and clay filtration was utilized to remove the wax and other impurities from crude lube extracts for years, with the wax being sold as a consumer product. Nowadays, a hydrogen based process or hydro-treating is combined with different catalysts to produce a mineral base oil of high quality. A rating system was developed using a term known as "base number" whereas the higher number the better. These high base number blending stocks require fewer additives in order to produce a suitable consumer end product.
PAO esters are still today, the holy grail of base stocks as they out perform any mineral oil based compound by a long shot. Because these PAO fluids are proprietary, are extremely expensive to produce and are backed up with limited production capability, the remainder of the industry was scrambling back in the early 1990's for a cheaper alternative in order to enter the lucrative synthetic market. Enter the "severely hydro-treated" mineral base oils like Royal Purple and others.
Refiners began to market these high base number mineral oils as "Synthetic" The PAO contingent sued as they felt that identifying these severely hydro treated base oils as a pure synthetic was out right fraud. As there were no government standards at that time for synthetic oils, the courts claimed that no one could actually claim what constituted a synthetic, and what was not. I feel that this was a true disservice to the consumer, as now the market is flooded with "synthetic oils" and we as consumers do not know which are true PAO esters and which are high base number want-a-bee's.
My feeling is this. Unless you have documented performance records over a long period of time for yours or a similar application, don't experiment. The trouble is that when we arrive at the parts store, all the bottles look alike. For example, I will always use Mobil-1 15w-50 extended performance in my 496 Mag-HO as I truly feel that it's the best I can get, and much better than it actually has to be. On the other hand, I would not put Quaker State , Royal Purple, or several others in my lawn mower due to my own personal experience. If you are not experienced, stick with the Merc oil or the Volvo oil. If you are set on an alternative, compare it's specification to the Mobil-1 data below. If your supplier refuses to provide the data, keep looking.
Mobil-1 15w-50?
API Certifications SF,SG,SH,CD
General Motors 6048-M, 6049-M, 6085-M,
Ford M2C153E
Total Base Number 12
Sulfated Ash 1.3
HT/HS, cP @150 C
Low Temp Viscosity 3500 @ -15 (Cranking cP)
30,000@-20 (Pumping cP)
High Temperature Viscosity 5.6 cSt at 100C
API Gravity 30.2
Pour Point -55 F
Flash Point 470 F
SUS @ 100 F 556
SUS @ 210 F 90
V.I. 170
Lastly, I see some of you are using truck fleet type oils like Rotella-T and Mobil Delvac. Remember that these are diesel fleet oils which are a little high on zinc additives. Diesels love Zinc. Gasoline engines do not. A high speed marine engine will get some of these heavy metal particles into the combustion chambers, which are excessively hot in a boat application. This can cause pre-ignition in a gasoline application. Remember that this effect is how a diesel engine operates, and is also how a gas engine can beat itself to pieces.
Volvo markets their 30w Synthetic domestically as they have a contract with Amsoil. The Volvo Marine is a rebrand of one of Amsoil's stand offerings. Overseas Volvo Synthetic is a rebrand of Mobil-1 15-w 50 Extended Performance bottled at the ExxonMobil facility in Gravashon, France.
Amsoil has discontinued their 30w synthetic, so I'll bet that Volvo comes out with an "Improved" 20w 40 version of synthetic before the end of the year depending when their contract with Amsoil is up.
Link to Volvo SAE 30w synthetic:
http://www.volvopentastore.com/Synt...on_id.314737696--store_id.366--view_id.345107
Link to Volvo SAE 15w 50 synthetic:
http://www.volvo.com..._engine_oil.htm
Link to new Mercriuser Full Synthetic Oil
http://www.mertenmarine.com/servlet/the-359/MerCruiser-Full-Synthetic-Engine/Detail
Don't Use Volvo SAE-30w Synthetic Oil???????
I've followed our group's comments over the past weeks and have had PM's from several of you and one common theme seems to prevail. We are all looking for the quick black or white answer to what appears to be a very complex issue. I suggest that we try not to generalize too quickly and look at the individual facts based on the little information available to us.
A limited number of failures have occurred in Volvo 8.1's whereas the cam followers were flat spotted and the closing ramp of the cam profile showed evidence of the roller lifter sliding down the back side of the lobe, rather than rolling as it is designed to do. There was no evidence that this had occurred prior to the widespread usage of the Volvo SAE-30 synthetic oil.
Merc and Volvo all use the same base engine, however there are subtle differences. Volvo's approach to increasing output is to utilize a cam shaft with a little less gross valve lift and a slightly higher valve spring pressure. They achieve their power gains by opening the valves sooner and more aggressively, and waiting until the last possible moment before slamming it closed. Seems like the cam followers are just having a bit of trouble following the cam, even with the increased spring pressure.
Merc uses more total gross valve lift (bigger cam) and opens the valves more gradually, opens them a tad more, then gently closes the valves. They get away with less spring pressure but idle quality suffers a bit.
By putting conventional oil in an 8.1 Volvo, you increase parasitic drag somewhat, and the increase in friction evidently sets up a wear pattern during break-in that keeps the valve lifter trunion rotation intact. The real problem IMHO lies in a too aggressive cam profile, without the addition of adequately stiff valve springs to complement the 8.1's heavy intake valves.
Let's face it, if you had a choice of changing an oil specification, or changing out cams and intake valve springs as part of a mass recall, what would you do. Personally I don't think the Volvo SAE-30 will be around for too long as their contract supplier dropped it from their own line-up some time ago. As I said in the past, these oils are typically a re-brand of an existing offering produced by one of the majors.
If you have a Volvo 8.1, I'd either use the Volvo Synthetic as offered by their overseas distributors (actually Mobil-1 15w-50 E/P), or I'd use the new Merc full synthetic. (Blasphemy) I'm going for the new Merc oil in my 496 HO and the remainder of our "fleet" as soon as my supply of Mobil-1 15w-50 Extended Performance runs out, as ExxonMobil does not blend it domestically anymore. (Sad day for the boating, street rod, and drag race crowd.)
I think it is only a matter of time that documented Volvo owners get a notification about the use of Volvo SAE-30.
Link to Volvo SAE 15w 50 synthetic:
http://www.volvo.com..._engine_oil.htm
Link to new Mercriuser Full Synthetic Oil
http://www.mertenmar...c-Engine/Detail
