Thank You All......

[TheSeasLife]

1985 Searay Sundancer 270 twin 190's

I want to thank all who help me figure fuel problem. Starter was a reverse rotation starter which was turning motor wrong way.

NEXT: I got one back fire so I know its now getting fuel. Now I need motor to keep turning over. Sounds like starter will not stay engaged to turn motor over. I cleaned all neg. and pos. connections and it still seems weak. I am using one of the batteries from the good side. It doesn't have problems turning over starboard motor. Not sure why it won't keep starter engaged on port side. I know it must have something to do with power because at one time I had it turning over when starter was wrong and fuel was splashing out.

 

[Don S]

Re: Thank You All......

The wrong starter would be one of those things that you just don't get to notice on a forum. And really don't think about happening. We assume if you change starters, you use the right one.
One problem it does cause, is you would be using the exhaust as the intake. Any water coming out the exhaust would get into the cylinders and water out the spark plug.
Pull the plugs, dry them off completely (heat gun or torch works great) and blow all the water out of the cylinders. May take a couple of times doing it to get the plugs all firing, but it will. Run it for a while, put in some new plugs and go for a ride.

 

[TheSeasLife]

Re: Thank You All......

Thanks Don. I am getting a grinding noise from starter now. Sounds like starter is trying to engage but not enough power. When they sent me wrong starter and it was spinning backwards I was able to turn it over. (I am sure that was due to retarded compression.) Now it seems like there isn't enough power or there is drag someplace stopping my power source. I have cleaned and checked all connections. I changed the ones that didn't look good and cleaned the rest. I even have a 4000amp ? booster hooked up and it still will not engage all the tuime to get good turnover. It's like intermitant. It cranks then grinds, crank then grind. The crank (turnover)is only for about 2 seconds/

 

[CheapboatKev]

Re: Thank You All......

Don S will chime in I am sure..

But did you notice any damage to the flywheel teeth when you changed out the arse backwards starter?

Also I believe you said you have twin 165's?
My old 165 had the supprt bracket at the end of the starter, does yours have this and is it attached? Was this starter shimmed?

I would pull it, inspect both starter & flywheel for damage..if OK line her up and reinstall..

p.s. If they gave you the wrong rotation the 1st time, how do you know you have the right model this time?

 

[arrkerr]

Re: Thank You All......

Might want to pull the plugs so that the motor is easy to turn over, and see if the starter will spin it.

Shims is another good idea from cheapboatkev. The solenoid also pushes the gears in the stater forward to engage the flywheel. If you're shimmed too much you might be just catching the tips of the flywheel gears and slipping off. If you're not shimmed enough the gears might be hitting the flywheel's face and not engaging. Or maybe something is wrong with the magnet in the solenoid and it is only sliding halfway out?

If the starter wasn't engaging at all, you should hear a spin. If it is engaged, and you hear a noise, it should be (at least slowly) moving the flywheel. If nothing is moving, and you hear a noise... something strange is going on.

I would remove the starter and bench test it to see if it is engaging and spinning properly. Its only two bolts (or three w/the supporting arm).

 

[TheSeasLife]

Re: Thank You All......

UPDATE: I took plugs out to try to dry out cylinder from reverse rotation. It will not turn over. With the reverse rotation starter it was turnong over and blowing fuel all over. Got good starter (gear in starter is made different) and now all it does is grind. I tried to turn motor over by hand with breaker bar and I can't move it. Before you hurt me and say "ITS LOCKED UP:", just yesterday it was turning over (but with wrong starter)

One thing I noticed when tring to turn by hand was that the Alternator Rotor was touching the Plate that the timing mark are on.

 

[Don S]

Re: Thank You All......

Try the starter from the other engine.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Thank You All......

Try the starter from the other engine.

I certainly wouldn't suggest using the other starter if the engine is truly locked up. You will just end up breaking something.

Is this fresh or salt water? Did you notice water on the plugs when you removed them?

 

[TheSeasLife]

Re: Thank You All......

Thx Don. I will do that. With all the other things I have tried from other motor you would have thought I would have done that.

Did you see where I posted that I can not turn over motor by hand now? Doesn't make sense since it was turning over yesterday with power.

Sorry for all the questions. One day I will be able to assist others with all the learning here. Thank You.

 

[Fishermark]

Re: Thank You All......

What drive is this? You might want to remove the drive to make sure that is not what is locked up.

If it is the engine, and if it is salt water, it doesn't take long before rust sets up. (Talking hours - not days). I would seggest spraying some PB Blaster or pouring some Marvel Mystery Oil - or even transmission fluid into each cylinder and trying to manually turn the engine over with your breaker bar before trying any more starters.

 

[Don S]

Re: Thank You All......

Did you see where I posted that I can not turn over motor by hand now?

Actually I missed the part where it was locked up. I thought you had the boat out of the water and running on muffs??????
Is the boat now sitting in salt water???

 

[Don S]

Re: Thank You All......

Seems you have been cranking for days with the reverse starter, and now you put on correct rotation starter the engine is locked up.
You also said the thing fired once,

NEXT: I got one back fire so I know its now getting fuel.

It wasn't locked up then. Why suddenly now.

 

[TheSeasLife]

Re: Thank You All......

Saltwater/Fresh Sealed
Alpha 1: If it was the drive it would only act like that when in gear?

Yes, Running on Muffs. In the beginning when first problem started it was running at 800 RPM for about 10 min. while flushing outdrive then it shut off by itself. Hasn't started since

Yes, Backfired. When I got starter on (correct one) it turned over on time with a backfire. Then starter would engage then click (grind like sound) and so on. Now I just get the grind from starter. At one point here on forums it said battery was to low. If there is not enough volts it will do that. I am even using a huge bump box from marina.

It wasn't locked up then. Why suddenly now.

Thats what making me go crazy right now. Monday cranking perfect (wrong starter) Tuesday after new starter (right one) it turns over once and now nothing?

 

[Don S]

Re: Thank You All......

Yes, Running on Muffs.

Then it wasn't running with salt water when you put the reversed starter on, correct.
What we are getting at here, is if salt water gets into the cylinders through the exhaust from cranking backwards, it will lock the engine up from rust. But you were running from a hose (not salt water) for a while before the problem. So salt water is NOT your problem.

A comment you made earlier about the pulley hitting the timing marks now makes me wonder. The timing marks are cast in, not just a tab. Beginning to wonder if some magnets have broken loose and binding in the rotor.

 

[TheSeasLife]

Re: Thank You All......

The timing marks are cast in, not just a tab. Beginning to wonder if some magnets have broken loose and binding in the rotor

Something is binding someplace. I have never seem a motor lock up in one day. And yes all fresh water teasting.

When I compared to starboard motor there is a gap of about 3/8" between Alternator Rotor and Block. Problem Motor the Alternator Rotor is dead tight against block. Now heres what might help. I, since owning boat and even when I looked at boat the problem side battery needed to be charged. It won't hold a charge. How easy and can I change that while motor is on boat. I need a puller right and will it fit in compartment?

 

[Don S]

Re: Thank You All......

Pull the rotor and check for loose magnets. If they are loose with the backfires and reverse rotation you had, they may have jammed into the stator. At which point, you are going to be looking for an alternator.

 

[CheapboatKev]

Re: Thank You All......

Just tossing out what I would do..

Remove the alternator and immediatley hit the starter to see how she turns to give me an idea of how that alternator effected the "locked up" issue.

I would try to get the belt outta the way, maybe just cut it off if it was fairly old...

 

[Don S]

Re: Thank You All......

There is no belt, and no alternator yet.
This is a 470 engine with the rotor, stator on the pulley where the vibration dampner would be. It was a poor try to use an outboard charging system. It didn't work very well either. And loose magnets do hang up on the stators.
Try that with any other IO engine.

 

[CheapboatKev]

Re: Thank You All......

dang..
My bad.
I'll sit back and learn along w/the OP.

 

[woosterken]

Re: Thank You All......

just a thought:by turning it backwards then turn it the right way could it have jammed a valve?
or when it back fired it could have jumped the timing and bent a push rod?

woosterken