Teleflex NFB non-hydraulic steering upgrade

[jdlough]

I just bought a 1997 SeaSwirl 2100 DC with a 175 Johnson OB and standard Teleflex Quick Connect Safe-T (3 turns lock-to-lock) steering.

I have 3-4" play in the wheel. The play seems mostly from a worn helm, and possibly a bit of worn cable. (The linkage at the motor does not move at all during the wheel-play.)

The NFB 4.2 system is recommended for V-6 motors and is 4.2 turns lock-to-lock (current system is 3)

The NFB Safe T II system is 3 turns. The product description says it is recommended only for V-4 motors, but iboat's chart says it's good for up to V-6. If I got this system, would it be no harder to turn than my current Safe T 3 turn system? Would it wear out quicker? Or, should I should I switch to the 4.3 turn NFB 4.3??

Anybody switched from 3-turn to 4.3-turn? Any comments on that? (I'm leaning towards the 4.2 turn system, if only because maybe it'll be harder for my teenage kids to scare the hell outta me with the quick random U-turns.)

Once I get past the wheel-play, my current 3 turn system is not hard to steer, even with the 175 HP.

BTW, iboats carries the Teleflex kits for much less than other sites I've googled.

Unless I'm totally mistaken, this fix/upgrade looks like a rarity in boating - an easy 1-2 hour job of a major component for the DIYer, and cheap!

Thanks,
Jim

 

[tboltmike]

Re: Teleflex NFB non-hydraulic steering upgrade

Can't answer your question directly. I have a 115 and bought the rotary 3 turn not the nfb system and it is smooth as silk. almost wish it had a little more friction. Easy to install if the cable length is right, better to be a little long but not much, No matter how hard you pull you can't make it longer and you don't want to bend it too tight. May have to order an adapter if your dash is a different angle than what comes in the box. Rotary's are better if there is cramped space in behind the dash. However, no one was able to tell me the advantage of the rack and pinion. but it may give more leverage if 4:1

 

[jdlough]

Re: Teleflex NFB non-hydraulic steering upgrade

....mike,

Yeah, that's sorta one of my questions: Does the NFB steering have more friction all the time, or is it a sort of ratchety-friction that just won't let it turn back on itself when you let go.

I don't think I need any adaptors. Apparently I can even use the same old screw holes.

I guess I'm mainly wondering about the switch from 3 turns hard-over to 4.3 turns hard-over.

Quicker steering VS more precise easier steering? Is that it?

And I'm thinking that the 3 turn is not hard for a manly man such as me, but maybe I should switch to the easy 4.3 turn, so the kids won't 'accidentally' turn too quick and toss dear-old-step-dad out of the boat?

Also, without cable hang-up surprises, the job should take just a couple of hours, right?

Thanks again,
Jim

 

[jevery]

Re: Teleflex NFB non-hydraulic steering upgrade

Yeah, that's sorta one of my questions: Does the NFB steering have more friction all the time, or is it a sort of ratchety-friction that just won't let it turn back on itself when you let go.

The NFB steering only has more friction when you initiate the turn, once the wheel is turning it feels about the same as non-NFB steering. I'd probably go for the 4.3 ratio myself. The lower gear ratio will make that 175 easier to turn, especially when you are turning against the torque of the motor. I had NFB steering on a 115 and found it was extremely hard to initiate a left turn under full throttle acceleration - As in pegging the lever to come up on plane. Once speed is reached, though, it took only a little more effort to turn left than right.

Honestly I didn't like the NFB steering that came on a new boat I bought a few years back. To me the clutch mechanism gave the steering a "sticky" feel - like the cable needed lubrication. But, in previous discussions on this forum and others, it seems that most people prefer it to the non-NFB systems and there is some peace of mind that the wheel won't suddenly spin to lock and toss your butt out of the boat should you're hand leave the wheel for some reason.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Teleflex NFB non-hydraulic steering upgrade

175 should have the NFB system as a minimum system. the NFB rotary is an excellant, owner friendly system.

 

[jdlough]

Re: Teleflex NFB non-hydraulic steering upgrade

Aside from my wheel-play, with my current system a slight turn is easy, feels like nothing much. As I make a sharper turn, it becomes harder to turn the wheel.

To me this seems right. I want that feedback.

If I understand it correctly, the No Feedback cable system is really misnamed. Aside from the initial sticky feeling of releasing the wheel when initiating a turn, you still feel the feedback from a sharper turn feeling harder to turn than a minor turn, correct?

And if I also understand it, hydraulics don't have that initial sticky feel, but you still have some feeling of wheel resistance when making a hard turn, correct?

I've read ALL the posts here, and I don't know if that sticky NFB cable system would be annoying to me or not.

So, If the above is correct, I may just bite the bullet and take the "can't go wrong" route and get the hydraulic system. Providing I can convince myself that I can do the install myself without having to lift the motor or other headaches.

At the very least it will increase resale value when I move up to my perfect deckboat.

I know this has been rehashed to death in these forums, but I'm still unsure (I'm even considering just replacing my current Teleflex regular feedback system with the same thing, only new - to get rid of the wheel-play).

Jim

 

[jevery]

Re: Teleflex NFB non-hydraulic steering upgrade

If I understand it correctly, the No Feedback cable system is really misnamed. Aside from the initial sticky feeling of releasing the wheel when initiating a turn, you still feel the feedback from a sharper turn feeling harder to turn than a minor turn, correct?

Correct. When there is resistance on the cable, either from engine torque or from water pressure on the skeg, the wheel will be more difficult to turn one way as compared to turning the wheel the other way. So yes the feedback is present, however, the clutch mechanism prevents the feedback from turning the steering wheel.

And if I also understand it, hydraulics don't have that initial sticky feel, but you still have some feeling of wheel resistance when making a hard turn, correct?

Correct. I went from the NFB cable system to a hydraulic system on my Ranger. The feedback is still present in that the wheel is harder to turn left than right under acceleration. Also, like the NFB system, the hydraulic system will not allow the steering to turn on its own. There is still a small amount of play in the wheel, but much less than any mechanical system I've ever driven. What I like best about the hydraulic system though is the increased ease of turning the wheel and the feeling of smoothness. Almost like power steering compared to manual. Another thing to know, if you don't already is that there are different capacity of helm pumps to choose, 1.7, 2.0, and 2.4, with the higher capacity pumps pumping more fluid per wheel turn. Thus the lower capacity pumps will turn a given engine easier, but require more wheel turns to do so. Hydraulic steering is no doubt a smoother and more precise coupling to the engine, but is significantly more cost.

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Teleflex NFB non-hydraulic steering upgrade

Here's a link to the Teleflex online library where you can read or download instruction manuals for their products and maybe answer some of your questions about installation:

http://www.teleflexmarine.com/cgi-bin/library.cgi?site=steering&type=us&library=1018

 

[Expidia]

Re: Teleflex NFB non-hydraulic steering upgrade

Recently I installed the Teleflex NFB. Now granted my outboard is only a 40 hp Merc 4 stroke but I installed it for the reason another poster had mentioned was that I was getting some whip around issues and I installed it more for safety reasons.

After two outings I switched it back for the OEM Teleflex.

Larger motors probably should have the NFB as standard equipment.

But I would definitely try out the feel of NFB before you go through the chore of installing it. Mine was easy because I already had Teleflex and it's cable was already in place.

But I had to do it 3 times. Once for the original install. A second time when I realized I had reversed the holes and the steering was opposite the first time I hit the water and a 3rd time to un-install it and go back with the original unit.

On my next bigger boat I'll be going with hydraulic. I didn't like the feel of NFB. Sticky is not a good description. Cranking down a steering dampener bolt on my outboard (it has one and that solved my whip around issue) is a better description of the feel. It feels like if I over tightened that bolt the wheel would always be tight. I liked the ratchet locking action and feel but I didn't like the unadjustable friction to the turns.

It took all the fun out of cruising for me. It held the boat straight but turns and docking were annoying.

It felt like driving a car without power steering!

Just my opinion and experience.

Maybe larger heavier motors offset that no power steering feeling. I don't know because the bigger boats I've driven were hydralic.

Either way, definetly test drive a boat with NFB installed. It's an aquired taste I guess