synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

BASSNSNOW

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Sep 2, 2001
Messages
16
i have a 99 merc 115 that has been on synthetic blend for as long as i've owned it i'm all out of the blend and was wanting to switch over to full synthetic, my question is do i have to drain the existing blend remaining in the oil reservoir OR can i just start topping off the reservoir as i use up the oil, next i was wondering is if anyone has hooked up their trolling batteries up in parallel if so how did you do it and how does it work for a 12V motor- thanks :cool:
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

Why don't you just buy more of the blend? It's only 10.00 a gallon and you can't beat the protection.<br /><br />Good luck?
 

Yepblaze

Lieutenant Commander
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Jun 1, 2001
Messages
1,686
Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

From what I have gathered the blend may provide the best protection towards engine logevity. The Synthetic properties tend to keep rings, and ports clean, while the crude base has advantages in the cushioning in the lower end.
 

petryshyn

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Oct 3, 2001
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Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

yo BASSNSNOW......as far as batteries go....lots of controversy here. How many amps output is your charging system?
 

alpapale

Seaman Apprentice
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Jul 17, 2001
Messages
36
Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

I would think you could just add to the reservoir as needed, but I don't want to start another long draw-out discussion on the benefits of synthetic oil, as I have participated on several long discussions on these boards regarding just that.<br /><br />As far as paralleling 12v batteries, (plus to plus, minus to minus )as long as they similar batteries in terms of charge capacity (amp-hours) and are equally charged when you start, you should have no problem as they will both discharge equally, and you will get twice the running time as you would with a single battery. BUT schematic does have a point, if both batteries are going to be charged at the same time by your charging system, then the charging system will have to be able to handle the load, unless you charge one at a time. You won’t have to worry about the charging system, but charging one at a time is a pain. <br /><br />I had a fish n' ski boat with two trolling batteries, but the charging was done with an independent charger that I plugged in when I got back to the dock. Here, the batteries were not connected to my engine's charging system which had it’s own independent battery. If your system uses the engine to charge the trolling battery(s), then caution needs to be taken as stated above. <br /><br /><br />Good luck and HAPPY BOATING! <br /> :)
 

petryshyn

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Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

AAAAAAhhhhhooooooyyyyy BASSNSNOW..<br />Here's my view (for what it's worth) on this popular subject:<br />-Outboard charging systems are not robust<br />-When they break............big money<br />-Most charging systems are not designed to deliver their max. output for long periods<br />-I can't remember the exact numbers, but around 60% of max. output is safely maintainable. eg. a 30 amp system can supply 18 amps over long durations.<br />-Most manufacturers and rebuilders will not warranty a charging component if the component is installed in a system with a low battery. Why??!! Because the load that the low battery and accessories present to the charging system may damage the system from extended periods of a high charging rate(heat).<br />Now to the question at hand....<br />-if you connect b1 and b2 together in parallel, some neat things are going to happen. You will increase the on time for your trolling motor. When you go as far as you can go......the batteries may be too low to start the engine(no big deal, that's what paddles are for..LOL) So you wait awhile, and as we all know, the batteries will recover somewhat in a few minutes and probably get you started (you wipe off your brow and say wheeeeew, I was lucky!) Question! How much current does b1 and b2 draw when they are being charged at 14volts? ans.=about 25-45amps each (depending on size, age, temperature and electrolyte mix ratio). That means that your charging system will put out its max for a long time before these batteries are up in charge and start drawing less. So you head back to shore > charging system overworking > batteries not fully charged in that short of time (but a full stringer of bass!) You try starting it when you get to shore, and it starts. YES!!! I guess there's nothing wrong!! Then you trailer the boat for another week or two...While your batteries are sitting there in the 'less than fully charged condition' they are slowly becoming permanently sulphated(eventually unusable) couple of weeks go by, and you head out again. The engine starts...wheeeeew!!! Nothing wrong!!! Off you go. Batteries still low from last time > charging system working its bag off. You get to your fishing spot(batteries still not up in charge)....switch on the trolling motor and find that you're not getting the distance you got before using the troller. Barely get it started > head back home > charging system again overworked > batteries still not up....you get to shore > try restarting > engine starts > wheeeew!!! Nothing wrong.......wipe off your brow and off you go!!!!<br /><br />Are you seeing a pattern here or is it just me!! Eventually you will have a pair of permanently sulphated batteries (unusable) and maybe even a damaged charging system...You look at the batteries and say 'I'll never buy *almart batteries again, they're sh*t!!.....LOL<br /><br />If this was an inboard, the solution is simple---put in a high output alternator (one that can handle the 50-90amp requirements of two low batteries,add in a safety factor to the alternator's spec) and add in a continuous duty solenoid to connect b1 and b2 together at the appropriate times.(NOT ALL THE TIME)<br /> But you don't have that option. Not easy to find a big output charging system for an outboard.<br /> If it was me:<br />1. B1 = Maintenance free battery. Why? maintenance free batteries have less gassing, less spillage, higher internal resistance when fully charged > less current draw under normal operation. Oh yeah, why doesn't everbody use m. free? They can't take deep cycling for long.(but we're not going to deep cycle them, and they'll live for 7-10 years) connect b1 soley to the OB<br /><br />2. B2 = Large deep cycle battery or regular maintenance battery (almost as good) If you have a large demand for power, buy a larger battery, not two small ones. Even an '8D'series heavy equipment battery battery will work nicely.<br />3. Do not expect the OB to charge this battery. Couple these batteries together with a continious duty solenoid controlled by a small push button for emerg. starting in the event that B1 fails.<br />4. Put a current limiting device(resistor or high forward resistance diode) from B1+ to B2+ This will allow the OB to slowly and safely charge B2. With this current limiter in place, B2 will take a very long time to come up in charge, therefore I'd recommend complimenting the system with a small solar panel which will slowly chip away at the sulphation and get the batteries up in charge even while the unit is aground.<br /><br />With this system, B2 will not pull down B1, thus you won't be stranded. B2 will not over-burden the charging system because of current limiting. The solar panel will slowly bring both batteries up to charge.<br /><br />I can hear some guys out there saying.....aaaaaahhhhhhhh that's a load of sh*t, I just connect them together and away I go..... Yeah, It'll work (for awhile)These are the guys on this website with charging system and battery failure problems......<br /><br />Hope this helps!!<br /> :rolleyes:
 

BASSNSNOW

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Joined
Sep 2, 2001
Messages
16
Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

i want to connect the two deep cycle trolling motor batteries in parallel and leave my starting battery to be charged my outboard without any connection to the other two batteries. i have a onboard charger to charge my deep cycles.
 

petryshyn

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Oct 3, 2001
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Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

Yes you can put them in parallel. If you're going to leave them in parallel and want to get max. life out of them, you should leave them on slow charge at all times or split them with a disconnect once they're up in charge, especially if you're not going to use them for more than a month... A 2 amp charger is all you need. Glad to see you're keeping em separate. Its the safest if you're lucky enough to have access to power when docked.<br />Luck fishin....
 

AWWALKER

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Nov 1, 2001
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Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

Lots of good info here. I'm a newbie on this board... WHAT A WONDERFUL RESOURCE & COMMUNITY!!!<br />SCHEMATIC...just a quick question regarding battery sulphation/life/etc... Do 'battery desulphators' work? Here is an interesting link i stumbled upon recently... http://www.shaka.com/~kalepa/desulf.htm <br /><br />comments anyone??
 

petryshyn

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Oct 3, 2001
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Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

Hey!!AWWALKER: nice url got some good pictures!!<br /><br />-Just leaving for the weekend hunt...don't have much time..<br />-Pulse charging has been around for ages. It has its place (especially as a full time charging system to increase longevity) It should not be confused with, or compared to "snake oil". Batteries fail for many reasons. Pulse charging will only address a specific few. If you have a new battery that has been abused and appears to be permanently sulphated, long term pulse charging "may" help. If you have an old battery, it probably has unrestoreable issues.<br />-If you are constantly trickle charging a battery,(emergency lighting etc.) pulse charging is superior for longevity. <br />-Its not a cure all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br />-A cheap *almart charger can be easily modified to pulse charge at a small rate to help address this issue.<br />-gotta go , my ride is here!
 

AWWALKER

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Nov 1, 2001
Messages
11
Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

Thanks Schematic! Your comment regarding mods to a cheap charger sounds interesting..could you email me or post information on a new topic? I'm tired of replacing batteries...(probably due to oversights on my part!). Maybe something like this could be posted/included in one of the FAQs/threads for 'new boaters'.<br /><br />Again, my hat's off to everyone providing such great information/advice on this forum!null
 

petryshyn

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Oct 3, 2001
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Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

AWWALKER, if you're a hobbyist and you have a cheap non-automatic charger, you can disable 1/2 the wave of the output. This will require that you charge the battery twice as long, but tends to hammer the plates and may help rejuvinate sulphated batteries. Don't expect miracles. Batteries fail beyond repair. The biggest secret to longevity is keeping them fully charged. Most non-regulated charging systems will never achieve this because there charge rate is most likely too high and for short intervals. To charge a battery to full charge, one must only charge at a rate of around 2-4 amps (pending on battery size)for 12-48 hours(pending on size and state of charge).<br /><br />Trivia !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />How can you tell if your battery is fully charged???<br /><br /> :eek: <br /><br /><br />
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AWWALKER

Cadet
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Nov 1, 2001
Messages
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Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

Thanks for the diagram.<br /><br />Ok, I'll be your straight man... :D <br />How CAN you tell if your battery is fully charged?
 

petryshyn

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Oct 3, 2001
Messages
2,851
Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

Even though I'm sicker than a dog right now, this topic still amuses me. Batteries should live 5-10 years...so why don't they? Because they used for wrong purposes(eq. maintenance free used as a deep cycle) or they are allowed to sit in a less than full charge state. Poor maintenance plays a part as well. Probably the biggest reason they fail, is because they are left in a lower than full state of charge. The problem is....a battery that is 1/2 state of charge will perform well enough to give you a false sense of security as to its up keep. <br /><br />-So how do we tell at what 'state of charge' its at, so we can do the appropriate?
 

ODDD1

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Jan 23, 2001
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Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

Schematic, this topic amuses me, too.... I calla battery a battery when it is fully charged and healthy.....dead batteries I call "Weekend breakers" .......I will never understand the logic of people...will spend $30000 on a boat, and wont spend $60 bux apeice for decent batteries every couple years......yeah, yeah..they should last longer, but I live, work an boat in the real world....batteries are neglected abused overworked FORGOTTEN lumps of lead in the bilge....how much is a saturday mornin on the water worth? buy a fresh one every 2 years...you will have one less thing trying NOT to make your boat run....LOL........<br />Dont get me wrong.. those 8 pound batteries are great for climbing in an out of boats with...[to start the dead ones]...but good batteries have fresh date codes on them and they weigh more than you think....when buying batteries, you need lead for capacity, and lead weighs and costs.....
 

petryshyn

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Oct 3, 2001
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Re: synthetic oil conversion, and battery connection

Interesting concept...........as I look over at my wife of two years..........LOL<br /> <br />She's gettin a little heavy. Does that mean I got my money's worth!...LOL Maybe I need a smaller spare hanging around to boost me now and then!...LOL (gotta post this before she see's)!<br />You're certainly right about the weight. The more lead, the more capacity, the more money...<br /><br />Hey ODDD1....do you know where the bleeder lines go on a 1979 70hp Merc?<br /><br /><br /> :)
 
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