Stuck and broken screws and bolts

[Seanmccullar]

Working on a 1958 Johnson RDE-19. I just broke the head off of a cylinder head cover bolt. I had been using penetrating oil and heat trying to get it loose, but snapped it right off. What should I do now?
Also, it seems so many screws and bolts on this outboard don't budge with penetrating oil and adequate force and I fear stripping or breaking many of them. I would appreciate some good tips!
Thanks

 

[Stumpalump]

Use a manual impact driver. They are cheap and work great on frozen bolts and screews. You can get a better one at Sears but the cheap ones work well.
http://t.harborfreight.com/impact-s...530.html?utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/
A little heat and a smack with a hammer works to loosen the corrosion as well.

 

[F_R]

That is not a head "cover" bolt, it is the head bolt itself. The best way to avoid breaking them is to leave them alone. Seriously, heat is the way to go. But I mean HOT heat--like from an acetylene torch. A propane torch might get it if it isn't too bad and you are lucky. Otherwise, they just are not hot enough.

 

[gm280]

At this point you now have to remove the head. That is unless you can drill out the broken-off bolt. I would proceed in removing the rest of the head bolts and regardless how many you break off, they all have to come out. And if that means removing the head and then working the remained of the bolts out, that is what you have to do. Lots of times you can grab the remaining bolt with a vice-grip and work them out back and forth a little at a time. And once you do get them removed, I would run a tap in each hole to clean the threads up before installing new bolts. JMHO!

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

First mix up 50/50 ATF and Acetone and use this for penetrating oil. This works far better than anything you can buy according to tests done by a machine shop. Then follow the instructions given by gm680. This is where most people screw up and just try to screw it out. If you can get it to move just a hair it will come out by working it back and forth. Here is a link to the machine shop's test.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20131.0

 

[flyingscott]

You are lucky looks like the head popped off of the bolt. If you take off the head you will have to grind that bolt down it's flared at the top. Do what bill and gm280 said and use a left handed bit to drill it out and get the correct E-Z out. I bet it comes out easy I have had those bolts break like that before it almost looks like the bolt is made in two pieces.

 

[oldboat1]

big believer in ATF (or ATF/acetone), and you might be able to get a vise grip on it. Tap it, heat it, rock it.... Recommend against an EZ out, but left handed bit can work if it comes to that.

[ed. had some success tapping the end of the wrench, both ways, after soaking/heating]

 

[Seanmccullar]

Thank you all. I had used ATF/Acetone on this bolt plus heat with poor results. I have a propane torch that I put on it for 5 minutes before trying to loosen. I saw the note about the acetylene torch being hotter, so is sounds like that might be a smart purchase. any risk to getting it too hot? Should I wait for the area to cool some before putting torque on it?

Any tips on the slot head bolts that I seem to be stripping too?

This is my maiden voyage for tearing down and rebuilding an outboard, so I apologize for the rookie questions!

 

[flyingscott]

Go with what stumpalump said hand impact for the slots or get the biggest screwdriver that fits in the slot tightly. How are you grabbing a the end of the bolt. Does that head have to come off

 

[Seanmccullar]

Just using screwdrivers on hand that are as wide as the slot, but none seem to fit tightly, which leads to the stripping. The slot opening seems to be double the thickness or more of my screwdrivers. How would one search for a "fatter" head screwdriver? Is there a name for that?

Does the head have to come off?...Well I am using this as a learning project, which forces me to learn the various motor components and functions, so I "want" to take it off, clean / refurbish / paint and reassemble this motor. I would love to find a reference to the "order of operation" to properly disassemble this puppy!

 

[flyingscott]

Go to the hardware store and look at screwdrivers there are many different size screwdrivers one will fit. If you are going to take it off anyways don't worry about getting the broken bolt out. You will be able to grab it much easier when the head is off. Get some plastic wedges in case you have to pry anything off. You gotta have the right screwdriver.

 

[oldboat1]

yeah, I have an old Craftsman (think it is, anyway) -- well-used when I got hold of it I'm pretty sure. Mine has a square shank, that allows you to grip it with the good old vise grip. If you do that down by the blade (or on the blade if it's really a big dog driver), you get much more torque. Also can tap the end of the vise grip to try and get the screw to budge. If the driver fits you probably won't strip the screw, but can sure bust it off just like a bolt. If you are into a salty, though, you are always up against it.

 

[bob johnson]

one trick when removing corroded bolts... is to NOT just go one direction from the get go.... you need to WORK it...to free up all that binder corrosion in the threads....once you get the bolt to rotate 1/2 revolution , then rotate it BACK in and then start back out again....once you get 1 rev out...rotate it back in 1/2 turn and then back it out again.......once you get some space under the head...get more penetrating fluid under there and let it soak.....heat is the beast...don't heat the BOLT...heat all around the bolt...heat the material the bolt is in...then out , back in and back out further ect ect....good luck

bob

 

[Seanmccullar]

ok, thank you all.

 

[rothfm]

Couple tips...Long ago my father taught me about "tapping". Use a shank or a socket extension bar or similar, and start tapping. And I mean ALOT of tapping..Tap for 5 or 10 minutes until tired. Then lube it, start tapping again. Lube and tap. Keep doing this until you are absolutely sick of it.

Then, heat surrounding area with heat. I find MAP gas in the yellow can is plenty hot for most motor work. The advice above about back and forth is hugely important. Even at first if it doesnt seem to move at all, apply backward pressure, then foward, then backward, repeat until it finally moves a bit. Keep the lube mixture on it always.

It is truely an art form! And NEVER use an easy out. I swear the tapping has a positive affect. Patience is you best friend here.

Those head bolts can all snap off, you will be able to pry off the head and put vice grips on the stub remaining.

 

[pro-crastinator]

A note on the Fillister head bolts (slotted style with "tall" barrell on head)
I find that they are very forgiving. Hand impact tools work great.
Note that sears sells replacement bits for hand impact tools. I have messed mine up before.
Yes to all the tips above. Heat, oil, and I can add one more. After heating the stuck bolt, place a wax crayon on the bolt so that the wax melts and goes down the threads. It reminds me of using solder on a copper pipe. It sucks it right in. Then continue with the efforts..... hopefully it will come loose.
I really dislike drilling and tapping. drill press is the way to go.
good luck.

 

[Texas Prowler]

Couple tips...Long ago my father taught me about "tapping". Use a shank or a socket extension bar or similar, and start tapping. And I mean ALOT of tapping..Tap for 5 or 10 minutes until tired. Then lube it, start tapping again. Lube and tap. Keep doing this until you are absolutely sick of it.

Then, heat surrounding area with heat. I find MAP gas in the yellow can is plenty hot for most motor work. The advice above about back and forth is hugely important. Even at first if it doesnt seem to move at all, apply backward pressure, then foward, then backward, repeat until it finally moves a bit. Keep the lube mixture on it always.

It is truely an art form! And NEVER use an easy out. I swear the tapping has a positive affect. Patience is you best friend here.

Those head bolts can all snap off, you will be able to pry off the head and put vice grips on the stub remaining.

This^^^. Except i learned from a wise old man before heat and lube. Get a air hammer and hit the head of the bolt for a few mins... This Will free the corrosion in the threads. This alone has been my go to for years. Then heat and trans/ acetone we're Next as they Then have the "right of passage" due to The corrosion being broken up.