Stingray vs Mariah

[saaristo]

Hi all,

I'm planning to by a boat but found myself torn between two choices - a 2003 Stingray 200CS or a 2001 Mariah 218 Shabah. The Stingray's weight is approx 2800 lb and powered by a 4.3 MPI Merc whereas the Mariah is around 3400 lb and powered by a 5.0 EFI Merc. Both of them are approximately the same size, although the Mariah is a bit (some 600lb) heavier and has a much higher freeboard. Typically the waters here are rather choppy...so I guess a higher freeboard plus heavier boat would be a smoother and safer choice? As I dont really have any experience with either of the brands boats or with their construction I would be really interested in opinions and experiences with them.
Which one of them is a better in terms of build quality? Leaving aside the cosmetics and interior details, which of them has a better, longer lasting hull construction, a better or more reliable "back-bone" to work with? Is there wood involved in either of them (in stringers and transom)? And finally, providing the conditions are the same, what would be the fuel consumption difference when "modest cruising on plane"?
Any help appreciated!

 

[Stingrayaxe]

I always considered the Stingray to be a decent boat. Very efficient hulls with lower HP. The trade off is ride quality. They are still in business. Mariah was a top tier boat builder. Lots of bells and whistles and price points to go with them. If i recall they ran into a bad run of hull blistering. Thats one reason they are no longer around. That said back in the day I always wanted one. Just a guess but i would think that the Stingray would be more efficient.

 

[ahicks]

Part of the weight of the heavier boat will be due to V8 vs.V6.

Heavier could be smoother, but safer? Heavier could also take longer to plane out. Wake behind either might be a consideration as well.

Will you be out frequently when the lake is all stirred up/choppy? Most boat I see like this, generally don't leave the dock unless conditions are pretty good.

Lower sides easier to climb over, and easier to bend over to grab that errant ski out of the water. I would consider a boat with less freeboard a plus for those reasons.

Other than that, condition would way heavily on my final decision.

 

[QBhoy]

my Head would say the Mariah would be better in terms of build quality, finish and seakeeping.....
But my heart would say Stingray all day...just for their out and out performance. So quick with modest engines.
I love a V8, but in this case, I would have the mpi engine over the efi...even if it is a V6. Pound for pound, it?s just as powerful and in the stingray it will result in a flying machine.
There is a similar stingray in our marina with a carb 4.3 and it is stellar...even with a standard black max prop. It runs well over 50mph. I didn?t get by it until I was approaching 60mph. Gave the Campion Chase a bit of a fright, for a while at least !
Lovely looking boats too.

 

[oldrem]

If your waters are anything like we have on Lake Michigan, I'd take the heavier boat. When we'd go fishing with our old Carver 26 we could bust through some heavy chop and feel safe while we watched lighter boats like the Bayliner 40's break harbor and turn around because they were being tossed around like an empty tin can in the rapids

 

[saaristo]

Thank you all for opinions, I really do appreciate it. We don't get many of them around here and there's little if any experience around compared to the US. The nature of the waters around here is that the waves tend to be short and sharp if you know what I mean. Kind of similar to a shaking bowl of water having 1-2 ft standing waves even on a perfectly calm summer day.
That being said...I'm not so much into having a top end speed boat but rather a comfy ride which also has the potential to push if really needed.So that guides me toward Mariah? On the other hand...the trailering weight is really different (I don't really know whether the 3400 lb of Mariah is with or without the engine??).
Another thing is that both of them are boats around 15 years of age and I don't really know what would be potentially waiting for me under the floor of both boats? The Stingray has a wooden floor but what's underneath - fibre and foam, treated wood? Same with Mariah, it has a anti-slip glassfibre floor but what's under?

 

[Scott Danforth]

all weights of boats with I/O are with the motor.

the stingray has a lighter hull, less freeboard (less hull weight)
the mariah has a heavier built hull, more freeboard, a bit more bulkheads (both adding weight) and about 200# of motor more

both boats will most likely have some sort of wood core under the fiberglass.

if you see wood in the stingray, it most likely has a deck-over (giant red flag, sirens and lights - read that as someone did a Shart-job of patching) for this reason alone, do not buy the stingray

no, none of the wood is treated

 

[saaristo]

Thanks Scott for the explanation. However, I'm not sure I understand the last thing said about Stingray - since English is not my native nor am I an experienced boater so what exactly do you mean by "most likely has a deck over"? You mean carpeting or false teak or something like that? If so, yes the Stingray has a carpet and a brown-looking maybe half an inch thick plywood under it and it's all definitely original. But yes, it's also not in perfect condition since it flexes a bit when stepped on.

 

[Lou C]

A deck over means that the original wood cored deck rotted (it is usually nothing more than 1/2" plywood covered with a thin coat of fiberglass, followed by carpet). They rot because the carpet holds moisture against the deck and the manufacturers never seal the holes drilled for seats, etc. So what some do, is remove the seats, pull up the carpet, cut out a new deck to lay over the old half rotted one, then cover that with carpet and re-install the seats. All the while the old deck is still rotting underneath as are the stringers and bulkheads. Very bad way to deal with old boat problems.

​My personal recommendation is to keep saving money and buy something much newer. I have replaced a deck in an older boat and it is a huge job because its almost always more than the deck, stringers and bulkheads will be rotted too.

​Save more, go much newer. As in 3-5 years old. Then you can get full composite construction, no or little wood, newer power train, etc. Better all the way around.

 

[roffey]

as a stingray owner I have access to the Stingrays owner website. I asked them once if the boat was a wood free construction and was told it was wood free. I have since seen articles that report the build is a wood composite. So at this point I don't know what to think or even of wood free is a good thing or not. As a owner I can say their build quality is OK, just OK and not great. Are they a fast boat, absolutely :joyous:

from the stingray web site

Pressure Treated Wood
Stingray uses plywood panels impregnated with oxide formulated preservatives. The plywood is resistant to decay or rot and protects against termites and other wood eating insects"

so,,, are they or are they not

 

[JimS123]

Stingray bottoms are heavy and can take the punishment. Where they save weight is in the sides and topsides, where maybe it doesn't matter. Their hull design also contributes to their fast speed with smaller engines.

Mariahs, IMHO are butt ugly. Since they are out of business, more than aesthetics must be the reason.

Our Stingray just completed her 34th season, and my son's put 11 seasons on his. If we were to buy another family boat, we would be hard pressed to buy one that wasn't a Stingray.

 

[saaristo]

I have the same confusion regarding the construction materials used in Stingray...some say it's wood free, some say it's not. What I can confirm on this case that the flooring is plywood and there is a plywood panel nicely encapsulated in the transom. Will it rot or decay? I haven't seen wood that doesn't rot or decay, another question is when will it happen or has it happened already. If the floor is the only thing to worry about, I could probably live with that. If it is the stringers and stuff underneath the floor potentially at risk, I would walk away. I believe Stingray doesn't use core material (whether it's balsa or plywood or something else along the bottom or waterline), or? Is that the reason JimS123 you are saying the Stingray bottom is heavy and can take the beating?

 

[krakatoa]

Thanks Scott for the explanation. However, I'm not sure I understand the last thing said about Stingray - since English is not my native nor am I an experienced boater so what exactly do you mean by "most likely has a deck over"? You mean carpeting or false teak or something like that? If so, yes the Stingray has a carpet and a brown-looking maybe half an inch thick plywood under it and it's all definitely original. But yes, it's also not in perfect condition since it flexes a bit when stepped on.

If the floor of the Stingray is flexing just walk away from that deal, flexing floor means soft points, rotten floor and probably rotten stringers. NOT GOOD! Walk away but really fast.....

 

[jkust]

My take... it is not appropriate to compare an ancient 1980's stingray to a relatively contemporary model. It's just apples and oranges. Like a bayliner of yesteryear to a bayliner of today. I never thought the Mariah's were that fantastic and I can pick them apart in about 20 seconds compared to other brands of that generation. 2001ish is when boats started building the next generation hulls and using state of the art materials as they moved out of the 90's, at least where these lake boats are concerned. Stingray is a fast boat but they don't accomplish that through magic, they tend to have light hulls and a light build along with their hull design which kills the ride quality. I don't want a light boat or a z plane hull, I'll just buy a robust boat with a larger engine and call it a day. As it is, I rarely ever push the top speed of my boat but always appreciate the ride quality. There's a few pretty nice looking, larger, newer stingrays on my lake that I wouldn't mind for a third or fourth boat but not as my one and only. I however wouldn't ever have a Mariah in my fleet. Stingrays have a cult following and are kind of cool in a certain way but Mariah isn't or at least that's my opinion on them. I say this in a state that has endless lakes and the highest per capita boat ownership so used boats are everywhere and the choices are endless so we can be a bit more discerning. I'll just mention if that Stingray is indeed a 2003, it should have an MPI engine not an EFI engine as the EFI was discontinued for 2002 engine model year for the newer MPI technology that arrived for small block v8's and v6's. Big block v8's however had MPI for several years prior to 2002. MPI is a 'better' technology than the older EFI in these engines.

 

[Scott Danforth]

I have the same confusion regarding the construction materials used in Stingray...some say it's wood free, some say it's not. What I can confirm on this case that the flooring is plywood and there is a plywood panel nicely encapsulated in the transom. Will it rot or decay? I haven't seen wood that doesn't rot or decay, another question is when will it happen or has it happened already. If the floor is the only thing to worry about, I could probably live with that. If it is the stringers and stuff underneath the floor potentially at risk, I would walk away. I believe Stingray doesn't use core material (whether it's balsa or plywood or something else along the bottom or waterline), or? Is that the reason JimS123 you are saying the Stingray bottom is heavy and can take the beating?

the floor is the LAST thing to rot after the transom and stringers.

RUN away from the stingray.

 

[saaristo]

jkust, just to confirm - the Stingray is 2003 with a 4.3 MPI and Mariah is a 2001 with 5.0 EFI.

Scott - ...that is when the stringer system is wood, correct? I would think that the screws and staples put through the floor into the stringers are actually causing the water to seep into structures below (where it doesn't dry out) and the last thing to give away is the when the rot "emerges on the surface" (meaning, visible on the floor).

 

[JimS123]

I have the same confusion regarding the construction materials used in Stingray...some say it's wood free, some say it's not. What I can confirm on this case that the flooring is plywood and there is a plywood panel nicely encapsulated in the transom. Will it rot or decay? I haven't seen wood that doesn't rot or decay, another question is when will it happen or has it happened already. If the floor is the only thing to worry about, I could probably live with that. If it is the stringers and stuff underneath the floor potentially at risk, I would walk away. I believe Stingray doesn't use core material (whether it's balsa or plywood or something else along the bottom or waterline), or? Is that the reason JimS123 you are saying the Stingray bottom is heavy and can take the beating?

An old Powerboat Magazine evaluation of a Stingray commented that the hull sides were light, and thus providing less weight to gain more speed. They went on further to state that the bottom was robust, indicating that it could take a pounding. After reading that I did some fist tapping compared to 2 other boats I owned at the time, and my take was that indeed the Stingray bottom was well built. Not scientific for sure, but then again after 34 seasons my Stingray has yet to develop so much as a spider crack on the bottom.

I should note that we boat in Lake Erie quite often. Two foot waves are a calm day. Sure, the ride quality isn't comparable to a boat twice the weight, but I don't consider it to be "bad". I'm quite happy with my 8 mpg.

Construction used to be fiberglass encapsulated wood stringers, topped with a glass covered wood deck. They drilled holes in the deck to pump in expanding foam, and then plugged and glassed over the holes. In other words, the most common method of the era. Seat bases were "treated" plywood (not pressure treated), covered on the outside with vinyl. That construction continued until at least 2005. I don't know what they do today, nor if they are wood free.

The OP is looking at 14-16 year old boats. If they were cared for by the typical American "boater", they are probably rotting in the core. OTOH, I have seen low hours always garage kept 1980 vintage Bayliners that were pristine and I would have no reservation owning. I would eliminate the Mariah just because they were crappy, IMHO. But I wouldn't necessarily "run away" from the Stingray without further inspection.

Good care stands out. Having all the maintenance records and looking at the engine and bilge tells a lot. My buddy just bought a real old boat in pristine condition. One of his friends at his yacht club is a Marine Surveyor and he used a moisture meter to determine if there was any moisture in the stringers or foam. The boat came thru with flying colors. If I was looking to buy a "classic", that's surely what I would do.

 

[Scott Danforth]

jkust, just to confirm - the Stingray is 2003 with a 4.3 MPI and Mariah is a 2001 with 5.0 EFI.

Scott - ...that is when the stringer system is wood, correct? I would think that the screws and staples put through the floor into the stringers are actually causing the water to seep into structures below (where it doesn't dry out) and the last thing to give away is the when the rot "emerges on the surface" (meaning, visible on the floor).

doesnt matter where the water came from. mostly its from limber holes and a leaking garboard plug or seeping in around transom screws.

floor is always the last thing to rot.

skip the stingray, or prepare to spend $3-5000 on rebuilding the hull.

 

[JimS123]

doesnt matter where the water came from. mostly its from limber holes and a leaking garboard plug or seeping in around transom screws.

floor is always the last thing to rot.

skip the stingray, or prepare to spend $3-5000 on rebuilding the hull.

Better skip the Mariah too. It's even older!

 

[krakatoa]

There is any possibility that you can post a few pictures of both boats? We love pictures around here