State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

Kwas

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This is a little old but it is still going on. More eminent domain BS. This was aired last friday, 01/20/2006<br /><br /><br /> This is a partial transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," January 19, 2005, that has been edited for clarity. <br /><br />SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: As we continue on "Hannity & Colmes", I'm Sean Hannity.<br /><br />Niagara Falls, New York, resident Patricia Van Egmond may lose her home of 50 years, all because an Indian casino wants to expand.<br /><br />Now, the state of New York is using eminent domain to take Mrs. Van Egmond's home and give it to the Seneca Nation of Indians as part of a land deal with the state of New York set up with the Senecas.<br /><br />(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)<br /><br />PATRICIA VAN EGMOND, FIGHTING TO KEEP HOME: I've lived here 50 years, and now they're taking the house away from me.<br /><br />I got married in '56 and we moved into this house and I've been here ever since. It was my husband's home before it was ours. His family lived here, and then when we got married we moved in. My husband has been dead for 21 years. And I stayed here with children and raised my family.<br /><br />Now, they want to take my house, and it's just not my house — I mean, it's where I live. It's where I work. It's my tenant upstairs. I'm losing a lot with their taking it. It's hard moving when I've never moved. I've never experienced moving. And it's just — I just hate giving up my house.<br /><br />Just because they can — it's their land, or they say it's their land, they can just come and do it and we don't have a say in it, which isn't right. You just can't take the house away from me.<br /><br />We don't know when they're going to just come and say, "You have to move out." We have no idea. We have no time zone whatsoever.<br /><br />I don't know where I could find a house to replace the house I have for the money they would give me. I don't think they can just come in and say they want my house and take it, and I don't — I don't know what they're going to do with it when they do take it.<br /><br />I don't know if they have any definite plans for it. I don't think they do. I mean, like they're not going to build another motel on my house or a hotel at my house. I don't know what they're going to use it for, but it doesn't seem fair that they can just come and take 50 years away from me and just say, "OK, you can go."<br /><br />HANNITY: The Senecas sent us this statement, reading in part, "On November 16, 2005, New York state moved forward with eminent domain proceedings to help the Seneca Gaming Corporation obtain land that it had not been able to purchase in downtown Niagara Falls, New York. The property was promised to the Seneca Nation of Indians as part of its gaming compact with the state. New York state offered to use its powers of eminent domain to help the Senecas obtain parcels for which it could not negotiate a private acquisition agreement."<br /><br />Joining us now, Patricia Van Egmond is with us. Her daughter, Tricia Villani is with us and also Mrs. Van Egmond's attorney, Pat Seely.<br /><br />Mrs. Van Egmond, I am so sorry. I can't believe this is my country and this is happening all over the place. Did they ever come and offer you money for the home?<br /><br />VAN EGMOND: They made us one offer.<br /><br />HANNITY: And was it within the realm of what the market is? Or a very generous offer? An offer you can't...<br /><br />VAN EGMOND: No, it wasn't a very generous offer.<br /><br />HANNITY: It was not a very generous.<br /><br />VAN EGMOND: No.<br /><br />HANNITY: So then — I for the life of me, I'd be most angry with Governor Pataki and the state of New York for allowing this to happen. What recourse do you have now?<br /><br />VAN EGMOND: I don't really know. I mean, we're trying to fight it, but I don't know where it will get us.<br /><br />HANNITY: Trisha, this is your mom. This is your home.<br /><br />TRICIA VILLANI, DAUGHTER: Yes.<br /><br />HANNITY: The home you grew up in. And you find out one day, your mom calls you up and says, "By the way, I have to get out of my house. I've just been thrown out by my government so that they can build, you know, a casino."<br /><br />VILLANI: That's exactly what's happening. And the letter that we did receive from the casino was in October, I believe, of 2003 when they made their initial offer of 20 percent over the assessed value.<br /><br />COLMES: Yes.<br /><br />VILLANI: You can see by the size of our house, there is not a single piece of property in the city of Niagara Falls — she's going to be losing her rental income from the man upstairs. She has no mortgage. She works across the street at Catholic charities. She walks to work.<br /><br />So if we have to move her out of there, that means she now has — she doesn't like to drive so she's going to have to lose her job...<br /><br />ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: It's Alan Colmes. I want to get to the attorney for just one second here and, Pat, ask you. The state promised 52 acres, twice as much as they could actually deliver. Isn't that the problem here? They committed to twice as much as they could actually purchase and said they'd use eminent domain to get the rest. They didn't have the right to do that, did they?<br /><br />VAN EGMOND: No.<br /><br />COLMES: So what can you do about it?<br /><br />PAT SEELY, ATTORNEY: Well, the problem that we have is that the state has contractually agreed to use their power of eminent domain to get the land to the Seneca nation.<br /><br />This is really an unprecedented move by any government. I'm unaware of any case like it in my research or any of the other practitioners in this area. No one's seen anything remotely like it. And so the problem that we have is that it's really a gross reach beyond what the power of eminent domain was intended.<br /><br />HANNITY: Pat, I wish you all the best. Mrs. Van Egmond and Tricia, I wish you guys the best. I hope we can help you.<br /><br />VILLANI: Thank you. Thank you for having us.<br /><br />VAN EGMOND: Thank you.<br /><br />SEELY: Thank you very much.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

Foreign nation?
 

heycods

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

Yea now what can she do. Use up all the money the state is planing on giving her on atorney fees. Then she is out in the cold. Cant buck the govt. if your a small dog, and she is. Hope her daughter has a nice place for her to move in with her because thats probably how it will end up.
 

RubberFrog

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

Originally posted by Haut Medoc:<br /> Foreign nation?
Seneca Nation. Doesn't sound like the United States of America to me.
 

PW2

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

Illinois Senator Barrack Obama said on "Meet The Press" this last Sunday:<br /><br />The scandal is not in what was done illegally or what laws were broken--The scandal is in what was done legally."<br /><br />He was referring to the Abramoff matter, but the concept applies here as well.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

My only reply would be, "They were here first". I do feel for her...."The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few, or the one". I think Mr. Spock said that....<br />Plenty of land was taken in Seattle's Monorail debacle.....Which will now not be built. Think that the gov is gonna give back the land? NOT! They will most likely sell it off at a profit! We still have to pay the monorail tax for two more years to retire the debt for which we got NOTHING!....*Whew!* I really needed to say that! :) .....JK
 

18rabbit

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

Originally posted by Haut Medoc:<br /> Foreign nation?
Yeah, all Indian reservations are foreign nations/entities; kind of a country within a country thing. The whole setup has been controversial since its inception. It is how the Indian tribes were able to have their right to open casinos recognized, while no one else is able to open a casino. I think except for some capital crimes, not all, state and fed laws do not apply on reservations. I know state sales tax does not apply to items ship to a reservation address, regardless of where goods are bought or shipped from. Also why cigarettes are much less expensive when purchased from a reservation; no state or fed tobacco tax is collected.<br /><br />The mother of woman’s step-sister is 100%, on-the-reservation Indian. The whole ‘Indian reservation’ thing is incredibly corrupt. The Indians have surrendered a lot of their original sovereignty. Still, Indians have more rights than an American citizen. You can argue if Indian’s are citizens because the 17th Amendment was put before voters at the same time the 16th Amendment was. Neither was ratified, both were put into our constitution, anyway, as if they were.<br /><br />16th Amend – allows establishment of income tax<br />17th Amend – recognizes American Indians as citizens
 

18rabbit

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

About the Indian casinos, it’s a scam. The Indians didn’t have the money to open casinos, so where did the casinos come from?!? Other, large casinos in Nevada and Atlantic City pay the reservation to put their seal on the opening of a new casino. The reservation gets jobs and a small payment as the on-paper-only owner, the vast majority of profits goes to the well known casino empires. Since then, many investor corps have formed to do the same thing. The smaller Indian casinos are often owned by white-man investor corporations, with Indian’s name on paper only, for legal reasons.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

Thank you for the clarification :) .....JK
 

salty87

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

so the state govt is using eminent domain to do something that the state is not allowed to do (open a casino). that kinda reads like somebody hiring a person to do something illegal, can't enforce it.<br /><br />eminent domain is supposed to be used in the best interests of the municipality which i guess they can say they'll get taxes from. but, if they hand land over to an indian tribe, that's giving it away not collecting taxes. what stops the indian tribe from just keeping the land?...probably a dubious contract that includes stealing someone's land.<br /><br />time for the accidental toxic spill, oops. maybe plant an endangered species on the property so at least they can't get it.
 

jtexas

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

1. The state is "giving" the land to the Seneca Nation? Why? Doesn't this fall under "Foreign Policy" - remind me again, what rights do states have to engage in foreign diplomacy or whatever?<br /><br />2. [edit - duh! should have read the whole article first.]<br /><br />3. Do they really owe land? And if they don't hand it over what's gonna happen? Seneca Nation sues, collects cash judgement?<br /><br />Wonder how they decided on this little plot of land.
 

Parrott_head

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

New York State is not the only government that is taking an expansive view of the law of eminent domain.<br /><br /> Riviera Beach, Florida.<br /><br />Seems if you don't have money, you don't have property rights.
 

CN Spots

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

Apparantly, neither of our nations (USA and Indian Nation) learned anything from the first time we employed eminent domain.<br /><br /><br />spots
 

18rabbit

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

JT – you bring up a good point. Indian reservations are decided on by the Dept of the Interior. It’s not up to NY State to expand a reservation. However, there is nothing stopping the Indians from owning the land and not have it part of the reservation.<br /><br />My nominal understanding of the Indian+casino thing is that the casino must be on a reservation, or if a reservation doesn’t exist it can be on other property the Indian(s) own.
 

jtexas

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

Originally posted by 18R:<br /> JT – you bring up a good point. Indian reservations are decided on by the Dept of the Interior. It’s not up to NY State to expand a reservation. However, there is nothing stopping the Indians from owning the land and not have it part of the reservation.<br /><br />My nominal understanding of the Indian+casino thing is that the casino must be on a reservation, or if a reservation doesn’t exist it can be on other property the Indian(s) own.
The Seneca Nation being - what - some kind of development corporation or other non-profit entity (or even a commercial enterprise) organized under the laws of the State of New York?<br /><br />Sorry, this isn't an argument with what you say...I'm just wondering about the Foreign Policy issue. Obviously I'm not the first person to think of it - all the great legal minds will have managed to justify it - I'm just wondering how?<br /><br />What if Michigan decided to condemn the upper penninsula and give it to Canada? Even better, Louisiana can condemn the whole dam delta and give it all to France.<br /><br />Okay, I got a bit carried away.<br /><br />But examples abound of local governments condemning private property of individuals for commercial enterprises. But how can any but the federal government give real estate to a foreign sovereign nation?<br /><br />I've got nothing against the tribes running gaming establishments. Got no argument with exemptions from fish & game regs. My question is purely one of jurisdiction.
 

JB

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

Eminent Domain is not stealing. It is confiscation with compensation for "the good of the community" according to the USSC.<br /><br />We don't have to like it. We usually don't, but it is the law, and was recently upheld by the Supreme Court.<br /><br />Weeping, wailing and pleading for the persons who are required to surrender property is beating a head against a brick wall.<br /><br />If the offered compensation is unreasonably small she can sue for a more fair price, but that is about all.<br /><br />Having heard only one side of this issue we must reserve judgement or risk looking very foolish when the whole truth is known.
 

wildbill59

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

As much as you'd like to think that you own your house and the land beneath it, think again. You're only a sharecropper and when the time comes you'll be told to move on.
 

Kwas

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

Just because it's the law doesn't make it right JB. No matter how much the compensation is, it is stealing if the person doesn't want to sell. As far a beating ones head against a brick wall being fruitless, I wouldn't be so sure about that. The more publicity about government stealing property may cause the suprime court to reverse the previous decision.
 

RubberFrog

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

Taking someones property against their will... sounds like stealing to me.
 

JB

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Re: State to steal land to give go a foreign nation

Just because it is legal doesn't make it right.<br /><br />I didn't say it was right, I said it was legal.
 
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