Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

[smellfishone]

here's my situation: I've got a slightly tired 1987 Evinrude 225 hp that actually runs pretty well, considering how long it takes me to start it when its cold.

When I turn the key to the start position, the starter will engage, the flywheel makes a few revolutions, then the starter 'kicks out' and returns to it's non engaged position. Key is still in start position.

This is frustrating cause this motor needs a few extra revolutions before she'll fire up. Normally I suffer through 8-10, maybe more, attempts at starting before getting her turned over. Once turned over, she idles and runs fine. When warm, it normally only takes a slight turn of the key to get the motor to start. So, this mostly occurs when its been sitting for a few days/week/weeks/etc. If all my starts are aligned, after 8-10 attempts, the 12th attempt she'll turn and turn and turn and finally fire up. If not, I might make 8-10 more attempts before I get another shot.

So far, I've checked all connections from battery to starter. Battery is fully charged. Starter was removed and checked over, checks out as fine. Solenoid was swapped, but same results.

Recently checked compression and one bank of cylinders is about 10-14psi lower than the other. Had some folks tellin me maybe this difference in compression makes the starter 'think' the engine has kicked over and therefore disengages itself? Dunno about that. Any ideas?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

Am I correct in assuming that the electric starter system DOES crank the engine over at a fast normal cranking rpm? If so, the problem you describe is usually due to a compression problem. When the engine encounters a low psi cylinder and then the following cylinder is a high normal compression one, this tricks the starting system into thinking (if a engine could think) the engine has fired (started), resulting in having the bendix drive disengage.

This is true especially on the 1987 200 and 225 looper engines as has been my experience.

Standing in back of the engine, facing the spark plugs, the cylinders are numbered as follows:

2....1
4....3
6....5

Take another compression test after the engine has warmed up and let us know exactly what the readings are per cylinder.

 

[boobie]

Re: Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

Check your spark on all 6 cyl's to make sure they are firing when cranking. Should jump a 7/16 " open air gap on a spark tester.

 

[F_R]

Re: Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

With all respect and not meaning to be a smart a**, do you know how to start it? It is amazing how many people have never been instructed on starting procedure. Operate the fast idle/warmup lever to give it some throttle. Push in and hold the key in while turning it to run the starter.

The borderline compression is a concern, but since it runs and idles ok, may or may not be a factor.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

I was having, and sometimes still have the same issue.... and after asking here and going over my issue, I think it is one of two problems.

either a bad starter that cant turn the engine fast enough...or a weak battery.....whats happening is the engine ALMOST starts, so the bendix releases but the motor wasnt quite up to the task... I think making sure the fuel is flowing good AND priming very prudently helps mask this issue....because on my boat usually once it has started once...it starts easily after wards...mainly because the carbs are full of fuel.

but I have both aleviated this problem by charging the battery...thus getting that few more rpms from the starter...and by replacing the starter with another used starter( not great but a little better)

i have this issue only in the winter...slow cranking, weak battery.....but like FR has said, nailing down all the aspects of starting the motor will go a long way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


bob

 

[sutor623]

Re: Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

I have some older motors. Particularly when I haven't started them for a few weeks, I can open the slow speed jets 1/4 turn with a screwdriver and let them warm up. Sometimes on colder days I just leave the slow speed needle set at a more open setting. Has always worked like a charm!!

 

[archcycle]

Re: Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

battery is fully charged but is it up to the task? it can have 12v but still not be able to sustain the amperage output necessary to get a good crank. maybe eventually just by chance it hits some compression that it has the power to overtake and it keeps spinning? try with a different battery. if you have a powerful automotive battery like a truck battery, which i'd imagine is how you get the boat to the water, hook that up and see what you get.

 

[smellfishone]

Re: Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

Thanks for the replies.

In regards to 'knowing' how to start it, yes, I believe I know the motor well enough to know how much throttle to give it, and priming the bulb til its completely firm. This motor is not new to me, I've had it for at least 5 seasons and I've always had this problem. I've just persevered knowing once it started, it would start easily when it was warm (which it does). I put some add'l effort into troubleshooting it last season, mostly cause my dad gave me a hard time about going out in my boat which does not start well when COLD.

I'll try a different battery, I'll hook up a brand new marine battery with more cranking amps, if necessary. Right now, I've got a pair of West Marine branded batteries with 650 cranking amps, each. But, I only start on one battery, and try to alternate batteries to keep them charged/used.

Compression-wise, last spring I was told that one bank of cylinders ranged in the mid to low 90s, while the other bank was 103/104 in each cylinder. The max difference was 14lbs, and I thought a 15lb difference was 'the limit.' Not sure what that limit means, cause the engine still runs fairly well, at both idle and higher RPM.

Thanks for the info and ideas. I'd like to resolve this issue, if economically possible, rather than going into full rebuild for the compression issue.

 

[sutor623]

Re: Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

Thanks for the replies.


Compression-wise, last spring I was told that one bank of cylinders ranged in the mid to low 90s, while the other bank was 103/104 in each cylinder. The max difference was 14lbs, and I thought a 15lb difference was 'the limit.' Not sure what that limit means, cause the engine still runs fairly well, at both idle and higher RPM.

Basically, when the engine compression is not within 10% a "simple" rebuild will fully restore the engine. Simple meaning a hone job, rings, and bearings. If you continue to run an out of spec motor, what eventually will happen is uneven wear of the crankshaft, unbalanced running motor, and eventually 'BOOOOOMMMM' Now a 'simple' rebuild becomes non-existant. If you are on the edge of spec you may just need to decarb the rings and see how that does for ya.

One other thing, try and turn the carb low speed needles counter clockwise 1/8 of a turn. It always helps my stubborn motors start right up.

 

[sutor623]

Re: Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

One other thing, 10% for you would be more like a 10psi difference, not 14-15lbs, as that would be 10% of 140-150PSI per cylinder

 

[archcycle]

Re: Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

I'll try a different battery, I'll hook up a brand new marine battery with more cranking amps, if necessary. Right now, I've got a pair of West Marine branded batteries with 650 cranking amps, each. But, I only start on one battery, and try to alternate batteries to keep them charged/used.

650 CCA isn't all that much but I'd think it would be fine unless they are older.

 

[archcycle]

Re: Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

Here's a thought on the compression and battery - pull the spark plugs. That way you KNOW you've got even compression all around

quick and simple with no parts and rules out whether compression and struggling are tricking the bendix. The bendix does require a certain rpm to keep up the centrifugal force that holds the gear in its up position.

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

One other thing, try and turn the carb low speed needles counter clockwise 1/8 of a turn. It always helps my stubborn motors start right up.

Non adjustable jetting. Can't do this one.....

Mine does the same thing with even compression on all cylinders. I think it is the nature of the beast. If the motor "kick's" like it is going to start the bendix goes down just like you stated.

I would be more worried about the compression results you mentioned. It's not a matter of the value but the spread. I'd run a decarb for sure. Then another compression check. If the numbers fix them selves (possible no issue) but look into why one side had different numbers. Something is causing the uneven compression to result. IE air leak (causes it to run lean) in any of thefuel systems recirc system, primer system, fuel distribution system to carbs.

If they don't you have a problem that your starter will not fix.... You need a rebuild. Sorry.

 

[sutor623]

Re: Starter 'kicks out' before outboard starts

When you say one bank of cylinders, you mean one side correct? If this is the case then I agree with JK, maybe you should see why the compression is lower on that one side. I would remove the head and check the cylinders to see if it looks like they ran lean, then change the headgasket (if the cylinders look okay) and retest. You may just get lucky....