Starter Bolts Broke

[91whitestang]

Hey guys, I'm new here and new to the boating scene, but hope to help give some feedback and some information the best I can.

I just recently purchased a 1989 Maxum 17' fiberglass inboard/outboard 130hp 3.0 mercruiser boat. It's very clean for it's age, and got a pretty good deal on it so I had to pick it up. But here is the problem I'm having that hopefully you guys might be able to lead me to the right direction.

4th time out on the boat, was starting the boat to pull a skier, and the starter fell off the motor. The bolts that hold it on to it, they broke (timing was off so maybe caused it, but looks like one broke awhile ago and the other must have finally had to much pressure and torque on it, that it finally broke also)

The bolts are still in the block, and are the hardened ones and can't drill into them that well, especially the one up against the dust shield. Anybody had this problem that can help or is the motor going to have to be pulled?

If the motor does have to be pulled, thinking about doing it myself but was curious how hard of a job it is and the alignment issue with the shaft going to the outboard?

Thanks for any help and advice you guys could give me!

Jeff

 

[diehard]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

most likly will have to pull your engine ..getting the shaft to line up is not that hard just like a truck with a standard transmision ..are you bolts broken off flush ? you should be able to drill them out and remove with an easy out ..

 

[futz]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

was there a front bracket installed on the starter? Some people get the new smaller starter and don't make a new front bracket, that ties to the block.

Then the starter vibrates and breaks the bolts.

yea someone like a plumber can drill it while still in the boat using a mirror, but 99 % of the time ,to do it right and drill it straight the motor got to come out. Then a easy out, bet they are not tight in the block.

 

[TowRoper]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

if there is a small amount of the bolt sticking out you can use a cut off wheel and put a slot in it for a screw driver just watch the sparks and burn up your boat!

 

[cr2k]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

You might try an angle drill that will fit in there and Reverse Drill Bits.
These drill in the opposite direction which is the same rotation as removing a bolt.
I have had some good luck with them (though not tried on a starter) when the bit starts to bite the bolt it will back right out if it's not real tight or corroded/rusted in.

But most of the time we have had broken starter bolts there has been enough to get a vice grip on and usually are not that tight.

May or may not work but would be the easiest front line attempt.

 

[myoldboat2]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

yup, like these guys have said, it can be done with the engine in the boat. i had one break about two months ago. my bilge is *really* tight, so i had a friend with smaller arms and good mechanical ability come over to help. he brought a right angle drill and some left hand drill bits. you don't absolutely need the left hand drill bits, but if the bolt piece is a little loose, it may spin out early on. mine broke off about 1/4" to 1/2" up inside the block hole, about where the threads begin, i'd say. with a mirror, my friend drilled straight into the bolt piece, then used an easy out and backed it right out. if you do drill on an angle, you may ruin the threads in your block, so be careful.

as far as pulling the engine, the drive shaft to coupler alignment is the least of the work. i just went through this to replace a failed coupler. there are a lot of systems that you need to disconnect from the engine. and if you're going to work on broken bolts underneath, you can't be sticking your head under an engine on a hoist, so the engine will be coming totally out, like onto a stand. that will take a pretty tall cherry picker. i've only pulled my engine high enough to pull the flywheel housing and change the coupler. while it's out, there are things that make sense to do... new starter, maybe a new coupler, maybe a new fuel line, some new wiring... i spent a long time on all these things. i also ended up replacing the u-joint/yoke assembly in the sterndrive--taking that bearing assembly out is a lot more nerve racking (and harder, i thought) than aligning the shaft and engine coupler. you will need to buy the right alignment tool to align the shaft to the coupler.

it sounds like you want to do your own maintenance. then be aware that you shoud pull the sterndrive every year to grease the driveshaft splines with spline grease. i learned the hard way (just replaced my 2nd coupler)--i will be pulling my drive every year.

the work isn't that bad, it's kind of enjoyable learning about this stuff. then some day when you have trouble on the lake, you'll understand what to look at and may save the day. enjoy the boat!

 

[marlboro180]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

There's quite a few ifs in here but:

If you have a welder, if you can get to the bolts with said welder ,if the bolts are sitting proud of the casting,if you have a couple spare bolts and if you can do it safely you could try:

Weld new bolts ( or hunk of scrap metal) to existing bolts. Then weld some more on the bolts just to throw some heat at it. Or use a torch if you have one.The heat from the weld and overweld is usually enough to break the rust bond in the threads.

Back 'em out. Replace w/ new bolts, which on a starter should be done anyway...

This has always worked for me, but then again usually well away from an engine bilge - Don't want to go boom!

Popping the motor out is not a huge ordeal, looks daunting, but not bad.

 

[grahamh]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

Reverse drill bits have worked wonders for me in automotive applications. Once it's drilled use a screw extractor.

An air drill might help to, just because they're sometimes smaller, even though (on mine at least) the speed is more difficult to modulate.

I'd at least try to do it in the boat before pulling the motor. Also, I'd be very wary of welding/using a torch in the boat, be careful, once fiberglass is on fire, it's REALLY on fire.

 

[marlboro180]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

I'd be very wary of welding/using a torch in the boat, be careful, once fiberglass is on fire, it's REALLY on fire.

Yeah , that's why I said safely. Once it gets going, she's gonna go. Safest way is to get the motor out. Should have added that. :redface:

 

[Scottdock]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

I had the same problem in the spring. I bought long 6 inch 3/8 bolts and cut the heads off. I replace the bellhousing bolts with the longer ones and slid the motor forward a few inches and was able to drill out the broken bolts with plenty of room.

 

[Fun Times]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

I had the same problem in the spring. I bought long 6 inch 3/8 bolts and cut the heads off. I replace the bellhousing bolts with the longer ones and slid the motor forward a few inches and was able to drill out the broken bolts with plenty of room.

That must have been fun, But different, Hmmm, What engine did you have?

 

[91whitestang]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

most likly will have to pull your engine ..getting the shaft to line up is not that hard just like a truck with a standard transmision ..are you bolts broken off flush ? you should be able to drill them out and remove with an easy out ..

thanks thats what i was thinking about doing but was hoping didn't have to pull the motor, but now after looking and messeing around with it last night, think the motor will have to come out, appreciate the help

 

[91whitestang]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

You might try an angle drill that will fit in there and Reverse Drill Bits.
These drill in the opposite direction which is the same rotation as removing a bolt.
I have had some good luck with them (though not tried on a starter) when the bit starts to bite the bolt it will back right out if it's not real tight or corroded/rusted in.

But most of the time we have had broken starter bolts there has been enough to get a vice grip on and usually are not that tight.

May or may not work but would be the easiest front line attempt.

Hey not a bad idea, will give that a try possibly. I was using the angle drill but with a standard drill bit. The guy I bought it from had a marina put a new starter on it 2 years ago, so the bolts are newer, not old and rusted so that might work. The bolts broke up inside there farther, so no bolt is showing which sucks, otherwise vise grips would be my friend. Thanks for the advice.

 

[91whitestang]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

yup, like these guys have said, it can be done with the engine in the boat. i had one break about two months ago. my bilge is *really* tight, so i had a friend with smaller arms and good mechanical ability come over to help. he brought a right angle drill and some left hand drill bits. you don't absolutely need the left hand drill bits, but if the bolt piece is a little loose, it may spin out early on. mine broke off about 1/4" to 1/2" up inside the block hole, about where the threads begin, i'd say. with a mirror, my friend drilled straight into the bolt piece, then used an easy out and backed it right out. if you do drill on an angle, you may ruin the threads in your block, so be careful.

as far as pulling the engine, the drive shaft to coupler alignment is the least of the work. i just went through this to replace a failed coupler. there are a lot of systems that you need to disconnect from the engine. and if you're going to work on broken bolts underneath, you can't be sticking your head under an engine on a hoist, so the engine will be coming totally out, like onto a stand. that will take a pretty tall cherry picker. i've only pulled my engine high enough to pull the flywheel housing and change the coupler. while it's out, there are things that make sense to do... new starter, maybe a new coupler, maybe a new fuel line, some new wiring... i spent a long time on all these things. i also ended up replacing the u-joint/yoke assembly in the sterndrive--taking that bearing assembly out is a lot more nerve racking (and harder, i thought) than aligning the shaft and engine coupler. you will need to buy the right alignment tool to align the shaft to the coupler.

it sounds like you want to do your own maintenance. then be aware that you shoud pull the sterndrive every year to grease the driveshaft splines with spline grease. i learned the hard way (just replaced my 2nd coupler)--i will be pulling my drive every year.

the work isn't that bad, it's kind of enjoyable learning about this stuff. then some day when you have trouble on the lake, you'll understand what to look at and may save the day. enjoy the boat!

Thanks for the advice and kind words. I think I can handle the work on pulling the motor, it's just getting everything lined back up that scares me a little. I mean I have pulled a motor in my mustang and put it back together before, just a little different with a boat. If I do have to pull the motor, I think I'm going to use a hoist to lift it out and over the boat probably, that way I won't have to worry about a cherry picker being high enough (which I highly doubt it would be.) So hopefully I'll be out boating soon, if for some reason i can't figure it out, I guess I'll have to take it to a marina but the $85 hour labor fee makes me want to do it more and more myself.

 

[91whitestang]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

Alright guys, want to thank you for your advice and tips so far. Got another question for ya. Last night before I even came to find this website (which i'm glad I did) I was using a angle drill with a normal drill bit but with a bigger electric drill. The bolt closer to the dust shield seems like a b***h to get to and only way I could was to drill at an angle to even get close to it, not straight up into it. The problem I'm having, is that it seems that the drill bit isn't even fazing the hardened bolt, and I'm using a snap on drill bit. Granted maybe the drill bit might be a little dull, but maybe you can drill into those? I'm not exactly sure on that, so figured I'd ask. I was using an electric drill, bigger one, milwaukee brand plug in so think it's heavy duty enough and able to spin fast enough, but I could be wrong?

So is it possible to even drill into those hardened bolts? They look fairly new, the guy said he had a marina put a new starter on it 2 years ago and the bolts look fairly new so I wouldn't think they would be rusted or coroated into the block all that much.

Thanks a million guys! Jeff

 

[snoski]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

I don't know how hardened they would be if they broke off the way they did. Get a new bit and try it first before giving up and pulling the motor...

 

[diehard]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

Alright guys, want to thank you for your advice and tips so far. Got another question for ya. Last night before I even came to find this website (which i'm glad I did) I was using a angle drill with a normal drill bit but with a bigger electric drill. The bolt closer to the dust shield seems like a b***h to get to and only way I could was to drill at an angle to even get close to it, not straight up into it. The problem I'm having, is that it seems that the drill bit isn't even fazing the hardened bolt, and I'm using a snap on drill bit. Granted maybe the drill bit might be a little dull, but maybe you can drill into those? I'm not exactly sure on that, so figured I'd ask. I was using an electric drill, bigger one, milwaukee brand plug in so think it's heavy duty enough and able to spin fast enough, but I could be wrong?

So is it possible to even drill into those hardened bolts? They look fairly new, the guy said he had a marina put a new starter on it 2 years ago and the bolts look fairly new so I wouldn't think they would be rusted or coroated into the block all that much.

Thanks a million guys! Jeff

use a center punch to give you a little hole to help keep your drill in the center ...if you can see it good with a center punch and looks good and rust free like you say use the center punch on the edge of the broken bolt and tap a good hole then tap that hole at an angle and the bolt should spin out may take a while but the get it out enough to vice grips it done that many times ...make sure you use antiseize when ou innstall new bolts and studs on solinod ......sorry i cant spell to good

 

[bamadave]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

When I was turning wrenches on boats, the last starter bolts I had the pleasure to remove, I used a sharp dental pick to rotate the broken bolt out. I know I was lucky but successful without removing the engine. Might be worth a try. My opinion, the bolt breaks because it loosens, and the weight of the starter bouncing and vibrating breaks the bolt. My point is that the broken portion of the bolt might not be frozen in the block.

 

[91whitestang]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

When I was turning wrenches on boats, the last starter bolts I had the pleasure to remove, I used a sharp dental pick to rotate the broken bolt out. I know I was lucky but successful without removing the engine. Might be worth a try. My opinion, the bolt breaks because it loosens, and the weight of the starter bouncing and vibrating breaks the bolt. My point is that the broken portion of the bolt might not be frozen in the block.

That's what I'm thinking. This past weekend before going out Tuesday (when the starter fell off), I had the cover off the motor and saw a broken bolt which was probably one of the starter bolts so it started who knows how many times with just the one bolt holding it on. Thanks for the tip, hope it helps me.

 

[bustermin]

Re: Starter Bolts Broke

I am a retired Crane Mechanic. I used to work on barges and rigs offshore and when I had to drill out broken bolts (which was quite frequent) I always used a Masonry Bit not a metal bit. It sounds crazy but it works, most of the bolts on the rigs were made of spring metal which is quite hard, which is why I used a masonry bit because they would not dull as quick.