Spun Prop....Why?

[fishguy]

1975 Evinrude 20hp.<br /><br />Purchased a reman prop about a month ago..correct size and pitch for the motor, brought owners manual with me when I went to buy it. I also asked about shear pins, as I found that the previous owner had been using nails...ugh. He directed me to the showroom, where I picked up 2 3-packs of brass pins. (Matched to the new prop I was holding in my hand, by the sales clerk)<br />The 4th time out after putting it on, we cruised around for a couple hours, then turned and headed back to the ramp. Cruising along, lots of water, running perfect, then ZINGGGG...felt like I broke a pin.<br />It would jerk and slip under power, but idled me back to the dock fine. Pulled off the prop expecting (hoping) to find a sheared pin...the pin was fine.<br />I could turn the popr shaft by hand and felt smooth while turning...put the prop back on and tried to tighten the prop nut...then I saw that the 'core' of the prop was turning and not the outer hub with the blades.<br /><br />I examined the leading edges of the blades and there's no evidence of having hit anything. <br /><br />My question is, why did this happen, and after I get another prop, is there anything I can do to prevent it from happening again? Was it a defective prop right from the shop?<br />And, the prop shop has a very good name, and does everything from little outboard props to big honkers that I'm sure it would take two men to even pick up. Does a prop have a curb and gutter warranty? Even if it's only a month old, and no evidence of any nicks and dings? If they don't help me out with warranty, how hard should I yell? They're a large dealer/service center, with a prop shop in another building...I've given them all my business since I got this (first) boat. <br /><br />This is kind of a kick in the sweet-meats, because Friday is my last day of work before vacation and we were leaving right after work for the lake, 3 hours away...for a family boating/fishing/camping trip. <br /><br />Welcome to boating, right? Grrrr

 

[DJ]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

AC,<br /><br />Take it back and explain just what happened, as you did here.<br /><br />It should be obvious to them that you did not hit anything.

 

[fishguy]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

Thanks. I have my receipt and everything. The prop and shear pins are on the same receipt. (not like they can say I was using the wrong pins or anything)<br /><br />I would think that they should come good for it.<br /><br />I have no experience with this at all, newbie boater.....does it take a pretty serious whack to spin a month old prop?<br />We were just cruising along, and it free-revved as though it came out of gear or sheared a pin.<br /><br />It couldn't have been anything hard like a rock, since there's not so much as a nick in the prop. And if it was a submerged log or something, I would think I would have felt it...14' boat...you feel every little ripple in the water, so I'd think I'd feel a log or something...<br /><br />I asked a couple of the guys that were standing on the private dock (where they rent slips) and they both said that where I was there was plenty of water..no shallow spots.

 

[jenny's dirtwater]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

What hole were you running your trim adjust pin?How heavy is the boat and load you were pushing?Not trying to say you did anything wrong but I learned the hard way it is fairly easy to spin a hub on a small motor when running trim pin in top hole.Especially when pushing a heavy load. But if shop is reputable as you say they should back it up until they see it as a reoccurring problem.In my area "The good prop shop" will even supply a loaner prop if they have one,and are asked nicely.

 

[fishguy]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

The boat isn’t heavy…little 14’ fiberglass speedboat/runabout. With the outboard off it’s light enough for 2 people to lift and set on stands. (Sorry, likely 400-500lbs..?)<br />There was nothing in the boat but myself, my wife, and my 8 year old daughter. Well, fuel tank, and small tool box, pfd's. <br />Anyways, trim is set at the 2nd hole out from the transom. The manual says this is the correct setting for most boats, and it seems to work the best set there.<br />It ‘feels’ light, even with the 3 of us….it’s up on plane in about 5-6 seconds, and will retain planning attitude when throttled back to about ¾. <br /><br />Update:<br />I called the prop shop, and spoke to the foreman (same person that sold me the prop). I explained what happened and there’s no problem for warranty, and he wants me to wait while he puts a new core in this one himself, rather than giving me one off the shelf and possibly have it happen again.<br /><br />I don’t know if we’re allowed to mention specific dealers on this forum, but I’m going to anyway..<br /><br />When I bought the prop, the foreman sold it to me. He found out that my boat was anchored not too far from his house, and told me to come get him that evening if I ran into any problems installing it, and he would come over and help me out.<br />During todays phone conversation, he said to bring the prop right over and he’d do it right away. I told him I wasn’t done work until 3 this afternoon. (The prop shop is about 40 minutes away) He said, “Umm…I was leaving early today…around noon…” Then he thought for a minute, and said, “Nevermind…swing by after work, I’ll meet you at the shop”.<br /><br />Okay folks….I’ve been in customer service for a lot of years, and this is unheard of. The world would be a better place…or at least the dealers that people gripe about would be better places. And it’s not like it’s a big expensive new boat that I purchased there..it’s a ’64 boat, and a ’75 outboard. We’re talking about a $70 reman prop here. It’s nice to be treated with exceptional service, regardless of the sum of money involved.<br /><br />So, it’s Allain’s Sales and Service, in Cocagne, New Brunswick. (Canada’s East Coast) <br /><br />If anyone wants their phone number and email addy, in case you’re ever in the area and need something, email me and I’ll provide it. I’m fishguy<at>nbnet.nb.ca<br /><br />99.9% of people reading this forum will never be within 1000 miles of Cocagne, but in case someone is, I wanted to pass that on.<br />People have no problem posting bad experience with dealers, so I though I’d share a good one.<br /><br />If things go right, my vacation is saved…Only 3.5 hours of work to go...

 

[NOSLEEP]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

Hello AC<br />Sure sounds like you must have purchased a <br />defective prop. <br />I,d like to add, I sure enjoy the lobsters my <br />freinds send out every year from your area.<br />Perhaps you may know the Mallet family or the<br />legger's. I'm in the Calgary area.

 

[DJ]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

AC,<br /><br />Glad it worked out.<br /><br />Do that guy a favor. Tell everyone (boater) you know about his service.

 

[fishguy]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

Well, all's well that ends well....<br /><br />I arrived at the shop, and he was standing at the press with the new core ready to be put in.<br />He pressed the old one out, sandblasted the inside of the hub and installed a new core.<br />I asked if it was something the I was doing, and he said, "Nope, just bad luck."<br />That was that. He did suggest that I wait 24hours before using it, as a formality....been 24 now, and we're leaving tomorrow morning for a week of vacation at the lake.<br />I think the 24 hours is to allow the alcohol-based lubricant they lube the new hub with to evaporate.<br />Either way, I'm very happy with the end result.<br /><br />Once again...Allain's Sales and Service, Cocagne, New Brunswick. You can tie up the boat right across the road from them. So, if you're ever up this way....<br /><br />And it's possible that I might know the Maillet or Leger family, but they're like the LeBlancs in this area...My city has a population around 100,000 and there's 8 pages of LeBlancs in the phone book.<br />Never know, though. <br /><br />Take care everybody, and play safe!

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

AC_NB_CANADA, I read a deal last nite on the Bombardier site that said if the pin hole in the shaft is slightly ovaled, it can, and will break pins, which turns on a light in my head when you said the guy before you was using nails for shear-pins. You might take a look at the shaft real close and see...if it is ovaled, that would leave a slight part of the pin that is not securely supported and may be a week spot???

 

[fishguy]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

Well, just got back from 5 days at the lake, and I used the boat a lot.. No problems at all.<br />Well, okay, I broke one pin. I couldn't really understand why, though.<br />We stopped in about 3' of water and got a few bass, then when we went to leave it just wouldn't spin the prop. I couldn't get to solid ground to change it so I got to stand on the muddy bottom and change it that way. It was one of the brass pins that I got at the prop shop. <br />The bottom is soft at the spot that we were camping and soft where se were fishing. <br />The only thing I can see is that I might have dropped it into gear at too high an rpm. (It doesn't run the greatest at very low rpm, so that may be it)<br />In the 3 days after that I was real careful to get the rpms as low as possible before dropping into gear. No problems after that.<br />Walleye, I checked the shaft, and it doesn't show any signs of wear or ovaling. The pins fit pretty snug.<br />I have another question, though....<br />Back when I spun the prop before, I pulled it off hoping to find the pin broken and it catching on a chunk of the broken pin..enough to turn at idle, but would break loose under load. (That's what happened the first time I had the boat out...went like heck for about 15 seconds, then fre-revved...it would go into gear and pull at idle, but break loose under any load)<br />Anyways, when I pulled the prop off (when it spun a week ago) the pin was fine, but bent enough that I had to mangle it up getting it out. Not bent from torque, but bent down on each end, toward the motor, from tightening. The 'prop guy' had said "You can't tighten it too tight, come right after it when you tighten it down."<br />Now....should I be tightening that prop nut down real tight, or finger tight and then with a wrench far enough to line up a hole?<br />For the record, the prop nut is a stainless castle nut, NOT a typical pointed plastic nut.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

If you just tighten the nut as tight as you can by hand and then use the wrench as you said, to line up the closest hole, I feel that should be plenty, or you will load the rubber bushing to the point you have stress on the pin just sitting still. You do want it tight enough you have no slop, but it doesn't need to be extremely tight. What year did you say that was again??? I want to look at the books and see if theres something I'm missing.......

 

[fishguy]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

1975 20hp

 

[walleyehed]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

I'm sorry....I missed that at the top!!!!!<br />I will get back to you tomarrow on my findings.<br />I know there is a few others here that may be able to tell you the proper installation, and maybe OMC JOE will see this and post before I get back to you....If so, 10:1 he's got the right answer.....

 

[fishguy]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

The owners manual tells me to spin it up finger tight and then advance to line up to the next hole. <br />The guy who makes a living fabricating and rebuilding props tells me to tighten it as tight as I can. <br /><br />A friend has a similar year 18hp evinrude (pretty much the same motor) and he has a plastic nut that's not even finger tight....We pulled his prop off for 'trysies' on my motor.<br /><br />Mine came (very used) with a castle nut and nothing else. The 2nd time I had the boat out the hub spun and the prop was swallowed up by Cocagne bay. I still had the core, just no blades. (the castle nut was small enough to allow the outer half of the prop to spin right off over it, leaving the core, the nut and the cotter pin right where they should be. The correct prop nut has a large enough OD to prevent the outer hub from sliding off if it spins.<br />I was not able to get a correct prop nut at the local dealer so I found a stainless washer the exact same size as the plastic nut would be and added that to the mix.<br />All said and done, I have a steel washer and castle nut doing exactly the same job as the plastic nut would do.<br />And, I really can't see it having to be THAT tight...after all, how much torque could you apply to a plastic nut, right..?? Maybe 10-15 foot pounds..?<br /><br />Sorry for all the questions...I just want to be able to stop worrying about the darn prop. The rest of the boat works great...

 

[BillP]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

Not all shear pins are created equal and some just break easier. I remember years ago with a 15 Evinrude I had to change shear pin brands to eliminate constant unjustified breaking. <br /><br />On the prop nut...Just "finger" tight on my motors and never have problems.

 

[SeaMasterZ@aol.com]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

the guy that owned the replacement leg for the 40 horse Johnson apparently liked to run the motor, the hole for the cotter is elongated, does this mean a lot of breakage is in my future? could I go up to the next size cotter pin? (machine shop in the family, would take care of it inexpensively, if he charged me at all)

 

[G DANE]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

Hi AC_NB_Canada <br />I had the same motor myself - great motor.<br /><br />The propnut should definately NOT be too tightened. Do exactly as manual says - fingertight to you feel resistance, and by tool to first possibility shows up to get cutterpin in. It you tighten too much, shear pin will bend and break by first occation. You already broke one on that account. You will be fine using above method. Adjust your iddle mixture when in gear, boat moving freely - do a search here, you will find a very good advice by Joe Reeves for your exact model.

 

[G DANE]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

I forgot to add:<br /><br />The correct nut is brass made, and if not overtightened, usually no problems even with ovaled hole in driveshaft. Ray the hole for cutter pin doesnt matter, it is only preventing nut from falling off. It is the hole for shear pin we are worried about here.

 

[SeaMasterZ@aol.com]

Re: Spun Prop....Why?

ACK I meant to say SHEAR pin, <br /><br />I really should try to sleep now and then, lol<br /><br />the shear pin hole is elongated, but the shaft itself feels tight, doesnt wobble or anything ... the donor motor is well worn, but the lower unit seems otherwise ok