Should we fight back?

Tinkerer

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 15, 2003
Messages
760
Just listening to a news report about an armoured car cash guard who apparently was shot dead out of hand by robbers at a bank today. <br /><br />Standard instructions to armoured car / security / whatever guards and cash handlers like bank tellers are to comply with the robbers' demands. Usually include comments like "Don't be a dead hero" or "A few dollars aren't worth your life.". <br /><br />Apparently didn't work for this bloke as they chased him and allegedly shot him on the ground.<br /><br />The criminals know and trade on the bank and armoured car etc instructions to comply with their demands. Just like every bully relies on people's fear of them to get what they want. <br /> <br />Yesterday I was listening to a bloke on radio who got the bejeezuz knocked out of him for standing up for mature women who were offended and threatened by a bunch of aggessive drunken hooligans on an evening peak hour train. None of the other blokes helped him while he was getting the tripe kicked out of him.<br /><br />Commonsense says don't get involved or you'll get the bejeezuz knocked of you. <br /><br />Much as it shames me to say it, if I'd been there I'd probably have stood by (assuming I couldn't run away), although if another four or five blokes had been willing to even up the numbers against the half dozen getting into the bloke who did the right thing I'd have been willing to get stuck right into it, old and unfit though I am. But I've been around long enough to know that a couple or three 14 year olds can kill older blokes if they're determined bashers or just armed with a knife, as many of them are nowadays.<br /><br />We had a massacre here some years back where a loony with guns wandered around for an afternoon shooting about 35 people. What would have happened if a football team or an army section (about 10 blokes) used to acting aggressively together had been there instead of a lot of individuals who were all trying to survive and protect themselves and those close to them? The moment the killer walked into the cafe where he killed a lot of people he would have been tackled and disarmed. Not necessarily without injuries or deaths but he would have been taken down.<br /><br />That is exactly what's happened in a couple of intended massacres in recent years in universities here, where staff have disarmed a nutcase before he could do more damage after killing one and in the other case two people. I have a close association with people in one of those cases and it was as much luck as anything else, but the killer wouldn't have been disarmed except for the willingness of people to fight against an armed attacker instead of just giving up and hoping they wouldn't be shot by him.<br /><br />When it's a "backs to the wall" situation, I'd rather go down fighting than be shot on my knees. Although up to that point I'd rather keep out of it.<br /><br />The plane that went down on 9/11 with the passenger revolt never reached its target. We'll never know what happened, but the people on it gave themselves a chance by fighting back.<br /><br />The consequence of that, and 9/11, is that the slightest threat to an aircraft by a passenger will now result in a concerted attack on the offender by most or all on board, male or female, because now they know that they could die if they don't fight. The 1970's days are gone of passengers being docile and hoping that if they comply and keep a low profile they won't get hurt. First person that even looks like he's got a box cutter, bomb or other weapon or explosive on a plane I'm on is going to get it shoved fair up his arse, and there will be plenty of others helping me, or me them.<br /><br />If we took a similar concerted community approach to other threats to us, whether it's a drug dealer in the game parlour or the bullies on the train, would we have a better world? <br /><br />Or is the question an obvious no-brainer?
 

jtexas

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
8,646
Re: Should we fight back?

Tough crowd, there, mate. Guess it's not much different than other big cities.<br /><br />A better world? I don't think it's a no-brainer. Well, if the "concerted approach" were really "similar" the answer is yes. Meaning, if people used good judgement. <br /><br />Before 911 we never envisioned that a hijacker would not want to land somewhere (on a runway). In fact, the passengers on UA flight 93 learned about the WTC from phone conversations, therefore knew they had nothing to lose.<br /><br />As far as firearms go, we got "concealed handgun licenses" over here, so you don't know who might be packing. You got to hope that people remember their training and don't just open up in a crowd. Better to leave gunplay to trained law enforcement, IMO. <br /><br />In a "fight or flight" situation you got to assess your potential for success.<br /><br />I think "don't get yourself killed over a few bucks" is good advice. Also "don't get yourself thrashed to prevent an old lady from being taunted." It'd be harder to keep quiet if she were being threatened. I like to think I would step in & take a beating to save a weaker person from it but I can't say for sure I would have the cahones to do it if it came to that.<br /><br />I like to think that in my region of the country there would be enough of us willing to join in & overpower a bunch of young hooligans. Like you, I feel I'd be useless in a fight but I'd join in if the numbers favored it. or if I saw an opportunity to do some good besides getting myself thrashed.<br /><br />Sometimes you just need one person to take charge; people are willing to act but reluctant to take initiative.
 

Elmer Fudge

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Messages
1,881
Re: Should we fight back?

In the recent Tyler Texas court house shootings, the carrier of the concealed weapon tried to help out and got himself killed, in most curcumstances being able to apply good judgement in these types of situations is not suffice in procuring the desired result :(
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Should we fight back?

In cases like that each person makes his/her own decision based on his/her own values.<br /><br />Statements like, "Don't be a dead hero.", "A few bucks aren't worth your life.", "Don't let them get away with it." are all based on someone elses values; someone who is not in the situation of the moment.<br /><br />What is "good judgement" anyway? I think it is like "common sense". It means you agree with the speaker's point of view.<br /><br />My point of view is that there are principles more important than staying alive.
 
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