"Securing" lower unit seals.

AlexeiVT

Seaman
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
71
'64 40 HP BigTwin.<br /><br />I had disassembled the lower unit, in hopes of reinstalling new seals, and eliminate my previous water leak.<br /><br />I replaced the full gamut (plastic fill/drain washers, prop shaft seal and O-ring, drive shaft seal, spaghetti seal).<br /><br />Ran it in a test tank, only to find that water was still intruding (actually more than one problem)...I had assumed it was due to not removing the shift shaft bushing to replace the shift shaft O-ring, though I did manage to fish a new one in place w/ much difficulty. When I went to check, I could see a leak was obvious from the fill hole despite using a fresh washer.<br /><br />A bit dismayed, I was reluctant to tear it apart again, but figured I would for sake of another attempt at removing the shift bushing (which, I surprised myself that I succeeded, since the dealer had failed w/ his tool, and tapping threads didn't do much...but careful wacks at an angle set it free).<br /><br />I attempted to submerge what I thought was a sealed lower unit, and pump in 10 psi...air bubbled up everywhere...it was coming through the water pump housing, which meant it was first coming through the newly replaced drive shaft housing.<br /><br />And I suspect, that the leak around the edges of the drive shaft housing are what led to all the oil being washed out.<br /><br />But here is my problem...removal of the old was easy enough, and it's a press fit.<br /><br />Upon reinstalling the new one, there seems to be too much corrosion (or at least beasically not enough metal left) for it to seat...that's what happened, it dislodged itself from the seat and allowed oil/air around the outside.<br /><br />So what's a reliable fix? Can I epoxy it in place?<br />Not really anticipating digging in there again anytime soon, and even if it were the case, I could always heat and melt the epoxy to pop out the seal.<br /><br />Also...when I sealed it last week...I used the Ultra-Copper RTV silicone (I did this based on my query w/ the dealer about what was recommended. It was strange to me that he said he didn't really have anything available to sell me, and the automotive stuff would work at least as well as whatever was used back in the day to seal it up...BUT, based on what I've stumbled across here, things seem to point away from using RTV...and it seems whatever was the good stuff in the day, is impossible to find...so what can I use?)<br /><br />I was going to try to locate some motoseal grey stuff, I've also seen 3M Marine Adhesive (It's white, and I don't recall the number...but not even sure if it'd handle the task).<br /><br />So, any ideas on how best to secure metal sleeved seals that wont stay pressed in place...and what sort of sealants to use for the rubber to metal bonds. Thanks
 

byacey

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
443
Re: "Securing" lower unit seals.

I used motoseal, and it has held up fine so far, no leaks. If the aluminum around the seal is pitted or at some state of decomposition, I wouldn't be hesitant to put JB weld on the aluminum and push the seal in before it sets. Just take care not to get it into the bearings. I had the most trouble sealing up around the edges of the prop shaft seal carrier. Paul Moir recommended not to pressure test with much more than 5 PSI. The gearcase will never see much more pressure than that unless the motor falls deep into the drink.
 

AlexeiVT

Seaman
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
71
Re: "Securing" lower unit seals.

Any opinions on Permatex ULTRA rubber gasket & sealant dressing...as this is all I could find after searching locally for MotoSeal...<br /><br />(where do you guys get MotoSeal)...I tried WalMart, PepBoys, HomeDepot, Lowes, Strauss, Advance, AutoZone...who's got it???<br /><br />What I did discover w/ the Permatex ULTRA rubber gasket sealant & dressing, that gives me a bit of hope that this will hold up in th elong run better than silicone, is that if it didn't come w/ a label, I think I'd definately term this as "GORILLA SNOT"...and from what I've read, that seems to be the consistancy of the product you want in there (super tacky, and fuel resistant).<br /><br />I've always used the Permatex Ultra Copper (RTV Silicone) for sealing up valve covers, oil and transmission pans, w/ no leaks...so I was surprised to hear that for whatever reason lower unit oil would degrade that overtime (maybe I've just been lucky, or maybe lower unit oil is more harsh than hot car oil)...<br /><br />...any input?
 

Paul Moir

Admiral
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
6,847
Re: "Securing" lower unit seals.

I would avoid anything with the word "copper" on an outboard like the plague due to the possibility of galvanic corrosion. There's good reason those copper water tubes never fail even after 50 years service in salt water.<br /><br />But that's not the point. I guess it's the chlorinated extreme pressure additives in l/u oil that is hard on RTV silicones. Perhaps some of the higher tech ones are OK to use since they claim suitability for differential fluids, but I'm not certain. Besides, maybe it's the surfactants that cause all the damage but what do I know?<br /><br />I got Permatex Motoseal Grey from the local Canadian Tire. One of it's primary uses is sealing 2-stroke crankcase halves since it's gasoline resistant and doesn't build up thickness. Motoseal grey is "synthetic rubber" dissolved in xylene while 3m 847 is nitrile rubber dissolved in acetone.
 

Scaaty

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
5,180
Re: "Securing" lower unit seals.

I Googled Motoseal, and heres just one link..<br /><br /> MotoSeal
 

AlexeiVT

Seaman
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
71
Re: "Securing" lower unit seals.

Well, thank you again...<br /><br />This post is more for the archives, in the event anyone searches for Permatex ULTRA rubber gasket & sealant dressing, as that is NOT the product for this application.<br /><br />It stays gummy, almost liquid state, even after several days out of the tube (for that matter, no real discernable difference between being in or out of the tube to dry)...luckily, as fate would have it, another disassembly was called for.<br /><br />I literally went to every sort of local automotive parts store I could find (spent 3 hours searching the area) for any place that sells Permatex that might also have MotoSeal, and I never found it.<br /><br />What I finally did get turned on to, per the recommendation of the Evinrude dealer, was to use some variety of 3M Weatherstrip Adhesive...I figured if that was good enough for them to warranty their repairs, then it was suitable for me...I found that readily available just about everywhere, and AutoBody supply stores also likely inventory it as well.<br /><br />I wouldn't have initially thought to use a product of such thin viscosity for the purpose, but it seems to do the trick...it's resistant to fuels and oils, so should hold up fine.<br /><br />In the final analysis...w/ the use of spaghetti seal and the big O-ring for the prop shaft...those should theoretically seal out water in and of themselves under compression, w/out the need for additional sealant (that's the way the motor was when it initially came into my hands, w/ a sealed lower unit w/out water)...but, figure, for insurance sake, best to goop a little something at the ends of the spaghetti seal.<br /><br />The one thing that still posed a problem, and has for the duration, is a tiny but large enough leak at the oil fill hole. I've replaced that plastic O-ring each time I fill it, but still detected a leak.<br /><br />Upon closer inspection, it turned out that there was basically a tiny groove/crack/worn portion, that ran the length of the threads, and for whatever reason the relatively inflexible plastic washer wouldn't seal it up good enough at the flange...the solution for now, some Teflon thread tape.<br /><br />There is still one last very small leak from one of the bolt holes for the foot...and that surprised me, considering that I not only ran sealant around the perimiter of each bolt hole on the flange, but also coated the threads thoroughly (not only this time, but EVERY time I sealed things up)...but alas, it's a minor thing to overcome again w/ additional sealant the next time I visit the boat (it's nice to finally not have to heft the motor home in my compact).
 
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