Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

JB

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Watched a replay of the final 2004 concert last night. Very impressed.<br /><br />PROMS appears to be an acronym. What does it mean?
 

Boomyal

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

You sure you don't mean POMS, JB? I see Brits referred to by that name often, especially by their Australian Cousins.
 

Andrew Leigh

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

JB<br /><br />I think Boomy is correct, It's POM with the plural s. I believe originally, Prisioner Of Mother England.<br /><br />Cheers<br />Andrew
 

stan_deezy

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

JB, great taste you have :cool: <br /><br />check it out here: History <br /><br />I seem to remember being told it was short for Promenade but don't quote me on that :D
 

QC

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

BTW, I have been trying to understand the origin of POM for a while as I am down under pretty often. After a lot of searching, the most credible explanation I found is Pomegranate, not the more popular Prisoner deal sited by Andrew. Although the prisoner story makes some sense at first glance, apparently that label was never used, so the acronym would not have developed. The two versions of the Pomegranate theme are that it is the color that a Brit turns when in the Aussie sun. Or that Pomegranate sorta rhymes with immigrant (Brit down under) and it just caught on due to the love of slang in Oz. Who knows for sure, but I for some reason, spent a little time researching it . . .
 

Elmer Fudge

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

JB, All that i know is that the Proms is an annual concert event of classical music that has been mainly for the benifit for the well to do folks of English society, but it has been accessible to all since the advent of television.<br /><br />I don't know what the word Proms actually mean if it is an acronym as you suspect, sorry i can't be of any help there.<br /><br />Edit: PS, The acronym POM means Prisoners of Mother England, the Aussies were called POMS, but they turned it around and started calling the English POMS after they found out that they got the better of the deal :D <br /><br />Thats what my Grandfather told me when i was a kid :)
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

The Proms is 110 years old and still remains true to its original aim: to present the widest possible range of music, performed to the highest standards, to large audiences.<br /><br />The first Proms concert took place on 10 August 1895 and was the brainchild of the impresario Robert Newman, manager of the newly built Queen's Hall in London.<br /><br />While Newman had previously organised symphony orchestra concerts at the hall, his aim was to reach a wider audience by offering more popular programmes, adopting a less formal promenade arrangement, and keeping ticket prices low. <br /><br />Born in 1869, Henry Wood had undergone a thorough musical training and, from his teens, began to make a name for himself as an organist, accompanist, vocal coach and conductor of choirs, orchestras and amateur opera companies.<br /><br />Newman arranged to meet Wood at Queen's Hall one spring morning in 1894 to talk about the project. 'I am going to run nightly concerts to train the public in easy stages,' he explained. 'Popular at first, gradually raising the standard until I have created a public for classical and modern music.' In February 1895 Newman offered Wood conductorship of a permanent orchestra at Queen's Hall, and of the first Proms season. <br /><br />The series was known as 'Mr Robert Newman's Promenade Concerts' and the programmes were perhaps over-generous by today standards, lasting around three hours. The informal atmosphere was encouraged by cheap tickets - one shilling (5p) for a single concert, or a guinea (£1.05) for a season ticket.<br /><br />Eating, drinking and smoking were permissable (though patrons were asked to refrain from striking matches during the vocal numbers). The more 'serious' items were confined to the first half, and a major attraction of the shorter second half was the Grand Fantasia - choice morsels extracted from popular operas. <br /><br />Wood and Newman were keen to introduce audiences to an ever wider range of music. In the first seasons, a tradition was established of a Wagner Night on Mondays and a Beethoven Night on Fridays. Wood continued to present an enterprising mixture of the familiar and the adventurous, programming new works each season (referred to as 'novelties').<br /><br />He also promoted young, talented performers, and he fought to raise orchestral standards, making himself unpopular in 1904 with a successful bid to scrap the system whereby orchestral players could send deputies to the rehearsals and appear in person only for the concert. By 1920 Wood had introduced to the Proms many of the leading composers of the day, including Richard Strauss, Debussy, Rakhmaninov, Ravel and Vaughan Williams. <br /><br />The onset of the First World War brought a public dislike for all things German, yet Wood and Newman - almost alone among the cultural establishment at the time - insisted that 'the greatest examples of Music and Art are world possessions and unassailable even by the prejudices of the hour'. In 1915 the publishers Chappell and Co., having earlier taken over the lease of the hall when Newman had run into financial troubles, also took over the orchestra, which was renamed the New Queen's Hall Orchestra. <br /><br />But the Proms were running at a loss, and in 1927 Chappell's announced its withdrawal of financial support. In the same year the BBC had established its status as a Corporation with a mandate 'to inform, educate and entertain', clearly a vision that Henry Wood held for the Proms.<br /><br />The BBC took over the Proms, and for three years the concerts were given by 'Sir Henry Wood and his Symphony Orchestra', until the BBC Symphony Orchestra was formed in 1930. The Proms now reached a far wider audience and although some feared that broadcasting would reduce audience numbers, Wood emphasised its role in achieving his aim 'of truly democratising the message of music, and making its beneficent effect universal'. <br /><br />Three days after Britain declared war on Germany, the BBC decentralised its Music Department and announced that it was unable to support the Proms.<br /><br />With characteristic determination Wood found private sponsorship for the 1940 and 1941 seasons, and replaced the BBC orchestra with the London Symphony Orchestra. But air-raids intensified and the 1940 season lasted only four weeks. On 10 May 1941 a Luftwaffe bombardment gutted the Queen's Hall.<br /><br />The only other hall available in London for orchestral concerts was the Royal Albert Hall, opened in 1871. It was not until the following season that the BBC returned to sponsor the Proms. <br /><br /><br />Need to know more?
 

Tinkrrrrr

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

As a culture vulture like my closet liberal mate Boomy :D , I must rise from my hibernation to contribute what little I can to this topic.<br /><br />Proms = Promenade Concert = a concert where a lot of the audience stands rather than sits in the auditorium, often at lower prices than for the seats. Some of the standing areas are thought to be better for listening that some of the seated areas. Traditional BBC concert event. Maybe musical culture for the masses. EDIT: Sorry- others have posted better explanations while I was typing the following.<br /><br />There are endless theories about Pom and its derivatives, such as Pommy. I've chased these down at times and have seen all sorts of learned and other opinions which allow me to offer dozens of versions, including that put by Andrew Leigh which is a common explanation. I really have no idea which is the correct version, but here's a few considerations.<br /><br />A Pom or a Pommy are both nouns used by Aussies as referring to English people, usually as distinct from Scots or Northern Irish, and possibly Welsh, who also come from Britain. It can be a term of endearment or a perjorative. In our usual fashion the common term "Pommy ba$tard" can also be affectionate, favourable or condemnatory. It all depends upon context and inflection.<br /><br />There doesn't seem to be any real history to the "Prisoner of His / Her Majesty" (POHM) or "Prisoner of Mother England" (POME) explanations as neither term was used in official or other records for the convicts sent here, nor in recorded common speech or documents.<br /><br />Pom does not seem to have been used, in Australia anyway, until the 20th century, around WWI,long after transportation of English (and at times largely Irish) convicts had ceased around the 1860's. <br /><br />There are all sorts of other explanations for Pom, one of the more common ones revolving around corruption of the French "pomme de terre" which is a potato in English. The English diet for a few centuries was famed as based on meat and potatoes, and derided by the French (and just about everyone else until about 1970-80) as stodgy and boring. Some explanations are based on the idea that French sailors used the term "pomme" as an insult to English sailors going back to the 18th century.<br /><br />Another possibility also flows from 18th century sailors and the French "pomme", meaning apple. Captain James Cook, who is credited with the Eurpoean discovery of Australia (after sundry Dutch, Portuguese and possibly other Europeans, not to mention countless Asian sailors and explorers, had found it first) is also credited with solving the scourge of scurvy by making his sailors eat fruit. Scurvy is essentially a vitamin C deficiency which rendered sailors useless and often killed them. Capt. Cook is usually wrongly credited with discovering the cure by makng his crew eat citrus, a great source of vitamin C, although he really made them eat malt which might have had little or no vitamin C. One version of the Pom history says it comes from the enforced practice of eating fruit allegedly instituted by Cook, so that French sailors used the term "pomme" = apple derisively against English sailors.<br /><br />I could put up a few other theories in common currency, all of no more substance than those above.
 

stan_deezy

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

Tinkrrrrrrr :D <br /><br />Of course Captain James Cook discovered Australia first :rolleyes: <br /><br />What was really amazing though was that he sailed all the way from Britain and managed to find a place called Cook Bay :eek: <br /><br />Now what are the chances of that happening at random? ;) :D
 

Tinkrrrrr

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

Originally posted by Stan_Deezy:<br /> Tinkrrrrrrr :D <br /><br />Of course Captain James Cook discovered Australia first :rolleyes: <br /><br />What was really amazing though was that he sailed all the way from Britain and managed to find a place called Cook Bay :eek: <br /><br />Now what are the chances of that happening at random? ;) :D
Not to mention Cooktown. <br /><br />It was just sitting there waiting for its namesake to find it. An outstanding example of foresight by the Aborigines who until the late 18th century had just been sitting around for the previous 40,000 years waiting to be discovered. :confused: <br /><br />Cooktown has nonetheless embraced the modern world and brought its grave concerns to the attention of the world through the marvels of the electric internet: http://www.cook.qld.gov.au/news/2005/Impound-JRC5.shtml
 

Boomyal

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

Sorry to have doubted JB's powers of observation on this one. <br /><br />But the POMS thing is still interesting. Thanks for all those interesting possibilites tinkrrrr.
 

JB

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

Okay, I think I have it. Short for "promenade concert". <br /><br />Wonderful audience participation and wonderful performances of wonderful music.<br /><br />On the hijack topic: If there were thousands of people on the continent already, how did Cook "discover" it. Same question about N. America and Columbus. Same old thing: European cultures do not acknowledge the existence of any other.
 

Boomyal

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

Originally posted by JB:<br /> Same old thing: European cultures do not acknowledge the existence of any other.
Hmmmmm? Undoubtedly falls into the 'America Bad' catagorie. Why don't we just flog ourselves a little more JB. The Liberals haven't done a good enough job of it?
 

grotmeister

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

if me memory serves me from studies years ago a certain Dr James Lind was charged with the task of finding a cure for scurvy during the enlightenment years as 10 times more royal navy sailors were lost to it than from conflict. he was on the right lines with fresh fruit but without the knowledge of vitamins etc. Problem was 6 months at sea=no fresh fruit so tried to make a 'marmalade of oranges' but the cooking destroyed the vital vitamins and it was a faliure. Cook observed Native Americans eating sea grass to successfully stave off the effects of scurvy. Anyway the proms is great; the hornpipe gets sillier every year but why not? Best regards to me mates across the pond. Chris
 

JB

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

"America bad"?? Whachootalkinbout, Boomer??<br /><br />Neither Cook nor Columbus were American as far as I know.
 

rolmops

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

In 1971,I was present at "The Last Night Of the Proms".It was a huge party.I will always remember the entire hall singing:"Rule Brittania,Britania Rules The Waves".<br />By the way.The Australian version of that one has to do with 5 chinese crackers going somewhere..
 

fixin

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

Originally posted by Boomyal:<br />The Liberals haven't done a good enough job of it?
Your slipping Boom,took ya three posts to get ta a Liberal bash. :p
 

Boomyal

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

Originally posted by Fixin:<br />
Originally posted by Boomyal:<br />The Liberals haven't done a good enough job of it?
Your slipping Boom,took ya three posts to get ta a Liberal bash. :p
Yeah Fixin, Paul Revere must be rollin over in his grave right now. Me Bad! Fell down on the job, I did. :p :D
 

ZooMbr

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Re: Say, Brit friends. What does PROMS mean?

Once again my VAST useless knowledge base is expanded beyond the necessary borders needed to sustain life! :D :D <br /><br />Actually I asked a couple of UK transplants that are neighbors (had to clarify the use of POMS in the ashes post). They had no idea and didn't think it mattered much. Again, you can learn more on iboats than talking to neighbors!
 
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