Salmonella in turkey?

[Bubba1235]

Salmonella in meat and poultry isn't uncommon, in fact its presnt to some degree in almost all of it. I see the recall of 36 million lbs. of ground turkey saying one person died and a couple dozen others became ill. I have to wonder if they were eating it raw or something because it is killed at any reasonable cooking temp.

What gives?

 

[JB]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

Not sure if you are including turkey in poultry or not. It is a fowl.

My guess is that most of the victims picked it up from other food or objects the turkey contacted before being cooked.

 

[df909]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

We have a chicken farm and salmonella is always a concern. It is very common in the larger commercial farms, sometimes in up to 60% of tested birds off the supermarket shelf. Smaller farms are as low as 10% of birds testing positive for salmonella.

It is usually poor hand washing or cross contamination. For example, the package that the poultry was in left liquid on the counter top or a puddle in the fridge or someone just didn't wash their hands.

It's really surprising and alarming how quickly food illness can spread. In the commercial meat industry, there are only a small handful of processing facilities. So, tons and tons of meat come from one facility everyday, thus increasing the chances of contamination. However, smaller farms that do their own processing greatly reduce the risk because they're not mixing meat from 150,000 different animals in one place.

 

[Fishing Dude too]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

Turkeys are a dumb bird. In a hard rain storm they look up to see what is hitting them in the head, and drown. Eat turkey twice a year Thanksgiving and when the other one gets thawed out.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

Turkeys are a dumb bird. In a hard rain storm they look up to see what is hitting them in the head, and drown.

I've never seen a flock of wild Turkey's dead in or right after a rain storm.

 

[JB]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

Wild turkeys are very very smart birds. It is the domestic varieties that are too stupid to come in out of the rain.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

They traced the source to a plant in Arkansas FWIW. That said, it has always amazed me how little regard people have for the threat of cross contamination. Without fail when I'm at the store I see cart after cart with ground beef, raw chicken, et al piled right on top of produce, boxes of pop tarts, etc. I shake my head as I pass the offending shoppers on the way to the register where the nice young man working hard and doing his best will inevitably commit the same offense while bagging my groceries if I don't watch him like a hawk.:facepalm: It's exasperating. I've brought it up with management repeatedly and it seems to be getting better. I always stress to them that it must be a training issue since almost every bagger does it.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

Salmonella in meat and poultry isn't uncommon, in fact its presnt to some degree in almost all of it. I see the recall of 36 million lbs. of ground turkey saying one person died and a couple dozen others became ill. I have to wonder if they were eating it raw or something because it is killed at any reasonable cooking temp.

What gives?

"Most" contamination originates on food surfaces.
When you handle, or cut, or ESPECIALLY grind that food it can get transferred through the material.
Your reference to "any reasonable cooking temperature" is not the way to go...as your chart indicates.
It is the internal temperature that is what needs to be the target ...which is why nearly all cooking instructions refer to just that...."cook to an internal temp of ...".
Solid meat cuts are generally far safer and the cooking temp will almost always deal with any surface contamination.
Ground meats are a different story...as are sausage and many deli items.

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

Hmmm, but in order to cook the internal parts, it still has to get to 150+ degrees. I can however see poisoning from mishandling the meat and not keeping hands clean.

The chart that you posted is clearly intended as a reference for internal meat temp.
Eating hamburgers or chicken/turkey burgers "rare" or "Medium-rare" is playing gastro-roulette, at least IMO.

Undercooking is in most cases the direct cause of failure to eradicate the contamination.
Contamination by handling after cooking is fairly unlikely...since the food would be uncomfortably hot...at least on the outside.
Far more likely for an after-cooking event would be putting burgs back on same platter on which you took them to the BBQ....or similar action.

Dirty hands on a bun...or the garnishes ...etc. or indeed, not washing lettuce, tomato, etc.
Salad items are notorious for harbouring salmonella, too.

 

[Brewman61]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

"Sam an Ella? Who are they?"

Sgt. Rizzo in an episode of MASH when Klinger ordered a bunch of tainted turkeys for the unit's Thanksgiving dinner and the whole camp came down with Salmonella poisioning.

 

[soggy_feet]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

screw this thoroughly cooked business... you cook the flavor right out of the food.

They key is to build up an immunity to the salmonella. It'll be pretty tough on you the first few times, but you'll get over it....


But seriously, I eat raw hamburger, have accidentally undercooked chicken a handful of times and ate it anyway, and the only salmonella troubles I've ever had were a few hrs of upset stomach from back in my college days working at a pet store. They had a turtle tank (salmonella is pretty much a natural defense for those things), and I would suck on a hose to get a siphon started to clean the crap and dead fish bits off the bottom of the tank.

 

[sublauxation]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

I've heard about half of all turkey in the stores has some strain of salmonella or other. On that note I'd be happy to dispose of a hundred pounds or so of recalled turkey, it's pretty easy to hide in chili. I'm only one intestinal illness away from my ideal weight.

 

[stackz]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

We have a chicken farm and salmonella is always a concern. It is very common in the larger commercial farms, sometimes in up to 60% of tested birds off the supermarket shelf. Smaller farms are as low as 10% of birds testing positive for salmonella.

It is usually poor hand washing or cross contamination. For example, the package that the poultry was in left liquid on the counter top or a puddle in the fridge or someone just didn't wash their hands.

It's really surprising and alarming how quickly food illness can spread. In the commercial meat industry, there are only a small handful of processing facilities. So, tons and tons of meat come from one facility everyday, thus increasing the chances of contamination. However, smaller farms that do their own processing greatly reduce the risk because they're not mixing meat from 150,000 different animals in one place.

nice to see someone from industry chime in on this. I'm assuming you run a "fryer" plant instead of a "breeder" plant as we call them here on the east coast. fryer being birds raised for cooking and breeder being ones raised for egg producing. I'm an investigator for the fda actually and do egg inspections over here. god how I hate doing environmental swabs in over/unders in the poo pits that have piles 5' tall with water leaks, blown out lights, and huge spider webs all over. its like walking through a horror movie.

but yeah, salmonella is part of the normal gut flora of chickens and other birds. it is what it is. you clean chickens incorrectly and pop the gut open on the meat and dont clean/cook it enough and you will get sick. there are a ton of safety screens in place now days that the USDA has in place but nature and people not cooking properly always finds a way.

same for eggs. dont eat them like rocky did, you're playing russian roulette just like the people who eat raw oysters are doing with vibrio spp.. it is what it is.

though, with eggs, its not so much salmonella in general that is the concern, its salmonella enteritidis which can cause spontaneous abortion of a fetus in women and we all know how pregnant women have weird cravings for over easy eggs with bananas and ice cream lol.

 

[stackz]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

They key is to build up an immunity to the salmonella. It'll be pretty tough on you the first few times, but you'll get over it....

as someone who has a master's in food microbiology, I'm going to say thats the dumbest thing I've ever read. you do NOT develop immunity to salmonella. you are either born with it or not. typhoid marie was BORN with an innate immunity to salmonella typhii. thats it. bacteria are NOT viruses. there are no immune cells for bacteria. there will be immune cells residual after the initial attack that will trigger memory response when the bacteria is encountered again, but you will get the initial illess factors before your system starts pumping out specialized cells to fight it again. the more recent relapse, the quicker the response. completely different to viral antigens.

about the best immunity you can get to a certain bacteria will still amount to a couple times on the toilet blowing out the porcelain versus ending up in the hospital with dehydration and intestinal sloughing.

But seriously, I eat raw hamburger, have accidentally undercooked chicken a handful of times and ate it anyway, and the only salmonella troubles I've ever had were a few hrs of upset stomach from back in my college days working at a pet store. They had a turtle tank (salmonella is pretty much a natural defense for those things), and I would suck on a hose to get a siphon started to clean the crap and dead fish bits off the bottom of the tank.

you've been extremely lucky. not from the raw hamburger or the raw chicken...but from the turtle tank sucking. kinda makes me wonder if you have any kind of indigestion problems or chronic heartburn as more acid in the stomach will reduce the infectious dose a good bit before it reaches your intestines where the damage starts.

 

[stackz]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

So in a nutshell, it really comes down to poor handling and cooking.

yes. the warnings are there in plain sight.

even on restaurant menus with the little * by items available.

* consumption of undercooked pork/poultry may result in gastrointestinal distress (or something to that affect). cook to an internal temp of 160*F for at least 30 seconds and you are cool. if not, eat at your own risk.

though...pork was mainly because in the past you had parasites to worry about. now days the industry is tested to the point you are hard pressed to run across a parasite.

hell, I'm a microbiologist and I work for the FDA and yet I still will eat my eggs over easy. I grew up on it and LOOOOOVVVVEEE it. I know I'm playing roulette but man, sopping up that yoke in the bread. sooo worth it...until I start to poo blood lol.

I also grew up on oysters but I quit with raw once I realized in college the dangers of vibrio. I'd rather get salmonella ANY day versus any of the pathogenic strains of vibrio...my god.

but yeah, if you want to be safe, fully cook it and just season to overcome the "taste" as others have pointed out...or slow cook it. so many things you can do to keep flavor and be safe.

 

[rbh]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

As was said, ground meat can be the beast, cook well.

 

[JB]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

Hmmmm. One of my Dad';s favorite snacks was what he called a "cannibal sandwich". It was also our main meal when male bonding.

1/4" slices of raw beef tenderloin and red onion on homemade sourdough or French bread. Just a little mayo. His favorite accompaniment was Chivas Royal Salute, neat.

I wonder, Stackz, what amount of risk we were taking?

 

[stackz]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

omg, I hate my laptop, just typed up a huge reply then when I clicked to post...I got logged out and it was lost. /rage.

anyway, very low risk. tenderloin is considered a "muscle" meat. muscle is considered G.R.A.S. according to my sister agency the USDA as (generally recognized as safe). basically a muscle is considered sterile (hate to say it but kinda like how pee is unless you have a urinary tract infection). the problem arises with ground meat. as ground meat is made from the leftovers after all the premium cuts are made including the fats and the linings. this is why you have fat % in ground meat. 97/3 90/10, 87/13, etc. the more fat the more fat lol. if the guy cutting was hungover/a newbie/disgruntled/didnt wash his hands after poo'ing and having an "assplosion", he could have cut the gut and then that cow's tainted meat gets mixed into the master batch of several hundred/thousand pounds....(e.coli is in the natural flora of cow intestines as it is in our intestines naturally). to quickly elaborate...we all have e.coli in our system but each of our systems have "slightly" different strains. my gut flora would make you sick and vice versa. which is why bad hand techniques in the bathroom are usually why meat gets tainted. why no rubber gloves you say? because you can choke on a rubber glove tip that gets cut off and makes it through the grinder. tada. without saying anyting revealing considering my pics in the "the ones that got away" thread got deleted...my bad, wasnt paying attention...there's a reason demographically homosexual males and couples who engage in anal have a higher percentage overall according to the CDC of gastro-intestinal ailments. and yes this info is publicly available but the just not widely available unless you use the FOIA (freedom of information act) to get it. mainly because the gay community is embarrassed by it. rightly so I'd say. but whatever.

listeria, e.coli, etc CAN grow at refrigerated temps. in a rich environment e.coli will double population every 30 minutes. it takes 3 days from grinding for "tube meat" before it even gets from the factory to the store cooler. the meat will look just fine, smell just fine. but will make you sick if undercooked for obvious reasons considering infectious dose for e.coli is around 1000 colony units. do the math I just gave you on a single cell over 3 day time period versus "sell by" date lol. it starts to get eye popping.

you cook well enough, it ends up as flavor lol.

as far as fresh ground sirloin burgers. they are what they are. they are just fatty sirloins ground into burgers and cooked right there per USDA regulation. it varies per state but for SC (where I live and know my USDA and DA counterparts), they make sure the restaurant has the grinder on-site. basically a sirloin that you wouldnt pay for if served as a steak due to the fat content...can be ground as-is for a burger and be just as good. voila.

one last point as to my whole thing on steaks. you have USDA, FDA, DHEC, and the DA (department of agriculture) per state. all involved with varying regulations. hell. you take...say...cheesesteak sandwich. if it has a top bun, USDA regulates it. you take that stupid top bun off and serve it "open face" FDA regulates it...seriously? lol.

oh and yeah, I'd ask for a bite of that tenderloin sandwich if I was standing beside you. I love my steaks moo'ing. for the reasons I stated above, is the reason restaurants are allowed to serve steaks any level of "done" you want. but have to make the statement for poultry or pork if not well done. pork has always had parasites as its bane. poultry has always had salmonella as its bane. thank god lamb and cow dont have those.

now if you get into ground, prions are a completely different animal as you cannot cook those out. they are deformed proteins and even if denatured, they dont change molecular shape. you wont catch me eating beef scrapple any time soon lol.

 

[df909]

Re: Salmonella in turkey?

Funny that we have and FDA guy here. We are cool with the state and feds, but the counties hate us. We process less than 20,000 birds a year, so we're exempt from inspections. The counties near me hate the fact that we're not inspected...they think we're going to poison the world and send everyone to the toilet & hospital. We process outside and let the sun, wind, & warmth help disinfect our equipment and we only use it once a week.

You have to worry when the food handling equipment is used for many hours everyday and they're handling meats from dozens and dozens of farms. One farm that has sucky sanitary practices can screw up the meat for an entire processing place. That's why it's better to have more, smaller processing facilities rather than a handful of huge ones.

So, the big thing is wash your nasty hands.