Resealing Canvas

RC Hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
42
Need some advise. I have a sunbrella cockpit cover that is in excellent shape but it leaks. Their are no holes anywhere in the canvas, but water just seaps through and drip in my boat. I have since put the boat to bed for the winter, but I have my canvas at home wanting to do something about the leaks. I would prefer not to drop several hundred dollars on a new one if this can be fixed. Does anyone have any recomended solutions? Any would be appreciated.
 

Solittle

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 28, 2002
Messages
7,518
Re: Resealing Canvas

Try 303 Fabric Guard or go to a camping supply store and ask what they would recommend using as a water proofing agent for tents.
 

airman

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 9, 2003
Messages
332
Re: Resealing Canvas

Go to sunbrella.com for good directions. The good news is that you probably just need to clean it with mild soap and water. 303 may help, but you must clean it first. A good cleaning is likely enough if the canvas is relatively new. This is a common problem if dirt is allowed to get into the fabric.
 

crazy charlie

Vice Admiral
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May 22, 2003
Messages
5,446
Re: Resealing Canvas

Any water repellant will work well,I have used them all with good results.If you wash the sunbrella dont use anything but cold water and it would be better if you can put it right back on the boat while still wet to eliminate shrinkage( not the Sinefeld shrinkage).After it dries you can use starbrite,3m,Marykate any of them.Make sure you saturate the fabric well.If you use the formula 303 which is supposed to be the best,you dont have to saturate it ,so the instructions say.Charlie
 

RC Hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
42
Re: Resealing Canvas

Thanks for the replies. So you would recommend that you use no soap or detergent when cleaning? Only Cold Water? Should I use a brush on it or wipe with a rag?
 

Solittle

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 28, 2002
Messages
7,518
Re: Resealing Canvas

As an afterthought - Scotch Guard is often recommended but never worked (on anything) for me.
 

airman

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 9, 2003
Messages
332
Re: Resealing Canvas

We (OK, mostly my wife) have used mild soap and a light scrubbing many times with no ill effects. As long as you let it dry without heat shrinkage will be insignificant. Don't use detergent. I think Charlie was not cautioning you against soap, but against heat. Am I right, Charlie?
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
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Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Resealing Canvas

Hammerhead:<br /><br />Find an upholstery supply company and buy a gallon of Aqua-Tite. About $27.00. You do not need to use soap.<br /><br />Take your 1200 psi pressure washer and use it to clean the Sunbrella fabric. Wait for it to dry thoroughly. Take an empty spray bottle, the kind you buy at Costco, fill it with Aqua-Tite and spray the whole cover. Apply extra around seams and along the bottom edge where water runs to.<br /><br />No matter what you do, if water puddles anywhere on the cover, it will drip through.<br /><br />My 20 ft boat sits outside, in the Pacific Northwest, 24/7/365. The only protection my boat has is it's Sunbrella cover. It stays totaly dry inside but it is well supported so water puddles no where on it. My cover was so ugly with algae until I did the above this summer. Pressure washer made it look brand new and after the torrential downpours and constant rain this past month my boat is still totally dry inside.
 

BillP

Captain
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Aug 10, 2002
Messages
3,290
Re: Resealing Canvas

Take Sunbrella to a commercial dry cleaner if you want it cleaned without harming the finish. You need the commerical guys because they have the equipment and expertise to do this type of job (your local dry cleaner for cloths will likely say they have no idea on how to clean Sunbrella).<br />They will get stains out that you will never do by the "home" cleaning method and won't damage the fibers. I've done this with sunbrella covers and dacron sails. Ones that looked like they were ready for the trash came out looking new.<br /><br />Don't expect a light top coat spray waterproofer to give long term protection. The material really needs to be saturated. To get a rough idea how much liquid it takes, drop the cover in a tub and keep adding water until all the fibers are saturated. Then buy liquid waterproofing by the gallon. It takes more than you may first think. Brush, spray or soak it on.
 

RC Hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
42
Re: Resealing Canvas

Boom and Bill,<br /><br />Thanks for the replies. I think that I will try the pressure washer then add the waterproofing. I have my canvase supported with two poles, and water is not baggin any where. I did some research at West Marine, and often times the cause is dirt gets between the fibers allowing the water through. I think I will spray with a pressure washer from the inside out and try to dislodge the dirt, then waterproof. <br /><br />Happy Holidays!
 

airman

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 9, 2003
Messages
332
Re: Resealing Canvas

Boom & Bill... Not to be controversial but I think you're going much farther than you have to, and being harder on the (expensive) canvas than you need to. Three weeks ago our canvas was weeping exactly as Hammerhead described. We washed our canves with mild soap and water and let it dry. It's perfect now. My wife does lots of restitching jobs and I'm sure that a lot of the damage has come from pressure washing. (Not that she minds the extra business :D ) Sometimes you need to get a bit harsh if there are deep stains but if the only complaint is leaks I would recommend against anything harsher than a good scrubbing, especially if it's an older top with worn stitching. 1200 psi is pretty hard on a piece of thread. Pressure washing from the inside probably won't help much (probably won't hurt either). If the fabric is worn enough to allow water through with any force left, you've got bigger problems than a little dirt IMHO. Good luck, I'm sure you'll solve your problem.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Resealing Canvas

Hammerhead, pressure washing was recommended to me by the wholesaler of the Sunbrella fabric. Do not p'wash it from the inside out. I pressure washed mine, in place, on the boat. I was amazed that VERY little water came thru it as a result. Don't stick the nozzle right into the fabric, just use it close enough that it gets the dirt.<br /><br />My cover is about 8 y/o, didn't have a leak problem, it was just ugly with moss and algae. I first put it thru a commercial washer and it did nothing for the dirt. I suppose it would be a good idea to go light on the seams, with the nozzle but, go heavy on the Aqua-tite.
 

crazy charlie

Vice Admiral
Joined
May 22, 2003
Messages
5,446
Re: Resealing Canvas

Yes Airman that is correct.The shrinkage is a factor when you dont use cold water or you dont let it air dry.If you help it dry it may shrink so just air dry.I found the care instructions from Sunbrella from when my canvas was new.1-brush off loose dirt 2-hose down with cold water 3-prepare cleaning mixture of water and mild natural soap(no detergents) 4-use a soft bristle brush to clean 5-allow soap to soak in 6-rinse thoroughly 7- air dry Thats it from the horses mouth.If stubborn stains persist prepare cleaning mixture of 4 ounces of bleach,2ounces of natural soap,1 gallon of water and use the same cleaning instructions as before ,just make sure it soaks for at least 20 minutes(works best on a cloudy or drizzly day---no sun!!!)A big caution is to NEVER APPLY HEAT TO SUNBRELLA FABRIC!!! After reading this I would recommend against the dry cleaning recommendation.Charlie
 

BillP

Captain
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Aug 10, 2002
Messages
3,290
Re: Resealing Canvas

Gentlemen,<br />I have never tried and never seen anyone use a pressure washer on boat canvas so didn't comment on it. However, I have used dry cleaning to get superior results compared to doing it the home grown way. Dry cleaning is not like using a washing machine and does not hurt the material. It is the safest method possible to clean fabric. Chemicals that are 100% compatible with the material are used to lift dirt and stains by soaking and rinsing. NO heat or abrasive action with a washing/drying type machine is used. Hard stains are taken out by hand. There is no method that is easier on the cloth than dry cleaning and no method that gets it cleaner. It is the same method used to clean silk and other delicate fabrics. The problem with this method is finding a commerical dry cleaner that is set up to do large pieces of fabric.<br /><br />Just for the record...as a hobby, I own two commercial sewing machines and sew only for my own boat projects. Before I got a better opportunity, I owned a marine canvas shop...Indian River Canvas, Cocoa, Florida...non believers please check public records and you will see my name between 1976-1981. I've been messing with Sunbrella type material since before it was called Sunbrella. I'm telling you what the pros do when you send your sails and covers in to be cleaned.
 

crazy charlie

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May 22, 2003
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Re: Resealing Canvas

I dont doubt you know your stuff Bill but if Raven Mills (the manufac. of Sunbrella) gives me litterature that says never apply heat to sunbrella and the drycleaning as I know it uses heat(melted buttons on dry cleaned clothing),then I would stay away from it.Charlie
 

StillFishin'

Seaman
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Messages
64
Re: Resealing Canvas

I'd like to chime in and see what you guys thing fo what I did to my 15 year old Sunbrella top.<br /><br />Late in 2002, my top really started leaking right through, like others have described. It was also moldy with both green and black areas. Also some of the stitching was starting to come undone. As I had nothing to loose I used a weak bleach soluting to bleach out some of the worst areas. Then I appyed some water proofing from Bass Pro Shops. Worked great but didn't have the boat in the water for very long to test long term effect.<br /><br />Well in the spring on 2003, I decided to really get it clean and really bleached it to get rid of all the mold. Then I washed it in cold water with natural soap and most of the stiching came out! I think the stiching was really to go anyway but not completly sure I the bleach did it. Sunbrella looked great! I had it all restiched and then applied almost a gallon of 303, probably to saturation.<br /><br />Anyways, for 2003 it worked great. But near the end of the year, I noticed some black spots forming again. I know by the end of 2004 I't will be worse. <br /><br />I din't know what I should do at this point. I know the problem comes from dew that forms at night and of course mold is next.<br /><br />I'm interested in the presser washing if you thing it will get the black spots off without removing the 303. Also this would be the easyiest as just put the top up and blast away-if it wll work.<br /><br />Seems like ony BillP is for the dry cleaning. <br />Do you think the dry cleaning will get the black stops off and not hurt the 303? More of a hassle as I have to take it off all the bows-not really that bad but more work.<br /><br />I know this will be a yeary thing and I don't want to let it go for years like I did before(wife was always complaining at how tacky the top looked).<br /><br />Sorry for the long post but any thought wuld be appreciated. Thanks<br /><br />StillFishin'
 

BillP

Captain
Joined
Aug 10, 2002
Messages
3,290
Re: Resealing Canvas

My post was only meant to put dry cleaning on the table as an option. The facts still remain that pros use the method because no other way works as well. There is no exaggeration when I say covers that looked ready for the trash came out looking brand new. I learned to do this from a yacht broker when selling a sailboat in Ft.Laud and it needed to have a full suit of nasty sails and covers cleaned. :D <br /><br />I'm not suggesting the fabric mfg is wrong either, so don't read that into it. :D I think anyone interested should research the dry cleaning process and understand why heat is only used when and if the material dictates it safe and necessary. Comparing this to melted buttons is apples to oranges and really says the cleaner didn't know what he was doing. :mad: <br /><br />I'm in no way a dry cleaning expert but quickly said, it is a process that identifies the materials and selects cleaning fluids and methods that will not harm the material, finish, thread or accessories. It isn't "one way does it all" and it is way less hostile to your covers and sails than backyard cleaning could ever be. Like already posted, the hard part is finding a commercial dry cleaner to do the work. The ones who do hotels are the right ones. <br /><br />Last but not least. Once the original waterproofing finish is gone you will not be able to duplicate the same long life with aftermarket waterproofing. The only way to come close is to saturate the material by brushing or soaking. :eek:
 

airman

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 9, 2003
Messages
332
Re: Resealing Canvas

Wow, lots of (strong) opinions on this topic. I'll stick with my orginal suggestion as I know it works. To add fuel to the fire our neighbours just rented a commercial carpet cleaner with excellent results. Sunbrella is pretty tough stuff. Stillfishin, you might try leaving a heater on under the cover to prevent dew from forming.
 

RC Hammer

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
42
Re: Resealing Canvas

Spring is a long way off hear in Ohio before I get to test the results! I will be sure to get back to you all on what I do and how well the fix actually fixes the problem!<br /><br />Thanks for all the great advise. Happy Holidays!<br /><br />Hammerhead
 
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