Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

krivnalyendi

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As you can see from the title, I am planning on..."Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley." Someone has mentioned that I will need new intake manifolds, what exactly are those and where can I find them? :)<br /><br />Any help on this project would be great..oh yeah, I'd also like to swap in an electronic ignition system, as long as I'm futzing around with this..any thoughts?<br /><br />Best,<br />Yendi<br /><br />p.s. Just wanted to add, I got this carb for $100 even, newly rebuilt. ;-)
 

Laddies

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

The first issue is, it needs to be a marine carb, don't use a automotive one. the log manifolds don't breath that well but mercury ran 350 GMs thru them, so they should work. the one thing you can be sure of is more fuel consuption
 

JasonB

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

Yup, marine carbs only. <br /><br />You will need a new manifold to make it worth doing. To figure out what manifold is acceptible, are you running in salt, fresh, or closed cooling?<br /><br />I just did this upgrade on my 302. I used a Weiand aluminum intake since I run only in fresh water. If in salt, I understand that aluminum is not always a good choice.<br /><br />If this is a Mercruiser, you will also need a 1" carb spacer so the carb will clear the hoses. The aftermarket intake may need a different size temp sender as well.<br /><br />I just spent 6 weeks on this swap (long story) and about $350 (175 carb, 100 manifold-ebay, $75 gaskets, manifold plugs, spacer, etc)<br /><br />Pertronix makes kits to drop into your distributor for less than $100. Good upgrade. <br /><br />Do one upgrade at a time. Life will be easier that way....
 

krivnalyendi

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

Is there a way to check if it's a marine carb? The guy said it is, but is there a way to be certain?<br /><br />My engine is fresh water cooled, but I do occassionally take it in the bay (I run it for a good twenty minutes on fresh water everytime after taking it out, though). Is an aluminum intake a bad idea, then? I don't want to lose the ability to run in salt water..<br /><br />Can I pick up everything I need for the carb install at Kragen or are these specialized parts I'm going to have to find on eBay or something?
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

You should search for previous posts on this subect, I know it has been discussed before. If you have a closed cooling system, the material the manifold is made from will not matter.J
 

krivnalyendi

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

OKay, i just talked to my middle man and he says: "it doesn't matter, it's been on a boat before and worked." That seems a little shady to me; if it's NOT a marine carb, is there a way to tell, and if it's NOT a marine carb, what problems am I likely to run into?
 

JasonB

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

If it's a Holley, the vent tubes on the top will be shaped like an upside down J.<br /><br /> NON-Marine Holley <br /><br />Notice the two tubes on top tat are cut at a slash....<br /><br /> MARINE Holley <br /><br />Notice the two tubes are extended up and hook over so that any fuel tet comes through will be dumped back into the carb.<br /><br />No J tubes = no Marine. there are a few other differences, but the tubes are the most obvious.<br /><br />If the carb you are getting is a 600cfm, you may need to play change thejetting and such to run right on your 302. I have an extra 600 for mine, but my primary carb is a 500cfm Weber and it can flow more than my engine can use, and my engine is not factory stock.<br /><br />Since you said Rochester 2bbl, I'm guessing you have a '76 or '77 Mercruiser 888 drive? Earlier ones, and I think OMC's, seemed to have 2300 Holley 2bbls. If I am correct, you will need a minimum 1" spacer under the carp to clear the water hoses. you will also have to invent a way to attach the throttle cable as Merc used a bracket on the carb and the one from your 2bbl will not work on a 4bbl. I can give you the part number if you want to go back with a Merc style bracket ($30 and easy) or Holley makes a plate/bracket that bolts under the carb, both pieces will run about $75 and introduce another plate/gasket under the carb. Brackets off newer mercruisers may work if youcan find one witha squarebore carb in a junk lot. I don't think the brackets off Spreadbores (quadrajets) will work as I think the bolt pattern is a bit different?? <br /><br />If Mercruiser, you will also need to determine what to do with the wiring plug bolted to teh back of the stock manifold. I don't think any aftermarket manifolds will give you the same mounting surface. I know my Weiand street avenger doesn't. I can also tell you that the hollow type factory spacers will not work with this manifold. I have an extra spacer on my workbench to prove it....<br /><br />If you proceed with the swap, it's a perfect time to put in a new tstat as you will pretty much have it apart anyway.<br /><br />You will also need a 4bbl flame arestor, the one from your 2bbl won't fit.<br /><br />I just finished this swap last week and did the ignition upgrade on my 888 last year, so feel free to ask any questions.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

If it is not a marine carb, don't use it! You will risk fire or explosion if you do.
 

krivnalyendi

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

Ugh...it's definetely an automotive carb, NOT a marine carb...any thoughts? Can I get some kind of conversion kit? It's a 4 barrel Holley, trying to put it on a 302 Ford...yeah, 19777 MerCruiser, JasonB was right.<br /><br />The guy I got it from said it came from a boat, and was on a boat even previous to that. If I just get a really good blower, point it at the carb, and run it for a while before starting it?
 

JasonB

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

Auto carb in a boat can be a bomb waitig to go off, and I don't think there are any conversion kits. The problem is that if the needles hanga nd the bowls overflow, the carb you have will start pumping the extra fuel onto the hot motor/into the bilge. The marine carb dumps it down the carb and would probably choke the motor.<br /><br />600cfm Holley 4bbls are fairly common/affordable places like E-bay. That's where I got mine. Since I ended up with another carb in a troubleshooting process that cost me dearly, mine will probably be on e-bay soon. Makes me sick after all the time I put in scrubbing/rebuilding that carb. My problem turned out to be something totally different and I'm not pulling it back apart to install the Holley. <br /><br />Try tossing in a Pertronix IgnitorII, Flamethrower coil, a new set of MagStar 8mm wires, and fresh plugs gapped at an extra .005. Makes for a nice upgrade. Not relly any extra power, but much easier starting and throttle response felt better.<br /><br />holley also makes a 500cfn 2bbl (www.holley.com/marine) that would be close to a bolt-on upgrade, but I was concerned that it would cost me low end grunt. All said, your Rochester isn't a horrible carb, but it does come up a bit short on the top end.
 

jimmbo

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

My engine uses the 500cfm holley ( 375cfm if rated like a 4bbl ) and it is not lacking low end grunt. It should be close to ideal in size for a 5 litre engine.
 

JasonB

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

Jimmbo, which engine do you have?<br /><br />I've been told by numerous folks that the 302 suffers on the bottom end if the primaries are too large. But it really depends on how the engine is built.<br /><br />If you want to do the math, at a volumetric effeciency (theoretical) or 100% (not gonna happen, but gives an idea), a 302 at 4200 or so (redline per Mercruiser) should need approx 376 cfm. Reality is that a carb larger than that may still provide benefits. The restrictive log maifolds that Merc used don't help, neither do the flow characteristics of the 302's heads.
 

krivnalyendi

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

Okay..so should I not even bother replacing my carb? I won't gain that much extra power with a 4 barrel, it sounds like? Looks like I'll have to sell this thing. :-(<br /><br />I'm looking into this electronic ignition business..how much would I be looking to spend for a Pertronix IgnitorII, Flamethrower coil, a new set of MagStar 8mm wires, and fresh plugs gapped at an extra .005? <br /><br />I think I want to have it all installed at my favorite boat service shop, since I screwed up bad the last time I tried to gap the plugs myself, and I really don't know enough to tackle this by mself..any chance I can do the whole project (parts and labor) for under $300? They charge $75/hour..
 

JasonB

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

The carb is worthwile with good bang, but can get expensive to install. Trust me on that one.<br /><br />The ignitorII is ~$100, coil is ~$30, and I think I paid $35 for the wires, plugs 8@ $2 each. While you're at it, toss in a new dist cap for $10. You could do the IgnitorI module fo r$70, but the II has a couple nice features like adaptive dwell for better starting and self protecting circuitry to keep it from burning out if connected wrong or left on without the engine running.<br /><br />I had never done anything like it before and had it all in in less than an hour. Basic summary:<br /><br />1. remove old coil and toss, bolt new one in with same vracket<br />2. Remove dist. cap leaving wires attached<br />3. remove rotor and the two screws that hold the points/condenser plate.<br />4. Drop in the ignitor plate and screw it down, push the wires/grommet through the wire hole in the dist.<br />5. connect the black wire to the ground on the coil. Connect the red to the + on the coil (I think..)<br />6. Install the magnet ring on the dist shaft and put the new rotor on top. Put oin the dist cap back on<br /><br />7. Now you have to power everything. Your 888 MAY have enough power at the choke. Mine had a flaky connection and didn't work. If you look at the 2 wires coming to the + side of the choke, one is white, one is a goldish tan/lt brown. The darker of teh two is the resistance wire. It fel reduced voltage that the old coil needed. You need a full 12 for the flamethrower and ignitor. Snip this wire. You may now be able to attach to the white wire and run a lead to teh + on teh coil. I think I have a flaky connection as my Ignitor would lose power ever little bit, so I pulled a wire from the key-on post of the keyswitch.<br /><br />8. pre-gap all your new plugs and replace them and their associated wires one at a time. When finished, relace the cap (I do it this way so I don't goof up the wires).<br /><br />9. Fire it up and check timing. Adjust as needed. stock is 10deg BTDC.<br /><br />(the dist part assumes you have the prestonite clip-cap distro, orthers may be slightly different on installing the module) <br /><br />You can probably find the MagStars here at Iboats, but not sure about the Pertrionix parts. I believe you could find an ignitorI here, but not sure about the II or coil. I got mine from VintagePerformance.com. Plugs from local parts store.
 

jimmbo

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

I have a 2002 VP 350. However Volvo also uses the same carb/manifold on the 305. Granted I am comparing Chev to Ford, egad! Any engine will suffer tip-in response from too large of venturi. Holley works around this by offering a highly adjustable high capacity accelerator pump. The Holley 500 2bbl is just the front half of their 3310 750cfm 4 bbl.<br /><br />Holley does make a little 450cfm 4bbl for a 302<br /> http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/Marine/FMS/FMSC/0-80364.html <br />and a 300 cfm 2bbl for it too<br /> http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/Marine/FMS/FMSC/0-80320-1.html
 

krivnalyendi

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

Sorry to bring this post back up again, but I wanted to know what kind of tools I'm going to need to do the electronic conversion..in the process of ordering the Ignitor II and flamethrower coil from eBay..does Kragen carry the 8mm wires? Is $125 for the Ignitor II and Flamethrower coil sound like a good price?<br /><br />Thanks!!!<br />Greg
 

olbuddyjack

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

Basic hand tools, screwdriver, small wrenches, etc, nothing special.<br /><br />Whos Kragen? :confused: <br /><br />$95 for the ignitor II, 30 bucks for the coil sounds fair.
 

krivnalyendi

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Re: Replacing 2bbl Rochester on a 302 V8 Ford with 4bbl Holley

Awesome..sorry, Kragen is just a local autoparts chain. Anyway though, are all Ignitor II's made the same? Which ones will work with my 1977 Ford V8 302 (2bbl carb)? Will I get ALL the parts I need to do the complete conversion in the standard box conversion kit?<br /><br />Thanks AGAIN! :)<br />-Greg
 
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