Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

[hostage]

As bulbs spend most of their watts on heating, rather than lighting, I am thinking of replacing them w/ LEDs. I am curious if anyone has done this? I have 5 curtsey lights lights in the boat that I am thinking of replacing. I am also thinking of replacing them w/ red LEDs as not destroy my night vision. I also want to replace my anchor light w/ a white LED, instead of a bulb. I have found a couple websites that sell them, though it doesn't appear iboats or any other larger etailers/retailers sell them. Less power usage and longer lasting, I am surprised this is not an industry standard.


http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=/mini-wedge.html
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=12v+wedge+led&_sacat=0

Kind Regards,

Hostage

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

It's not an industry standard because LED's are more expensive (marginal, I know). I have changed the map/dome in my truck to LED's, and used www.v-leds.com. Going to red is just fine, but on the anchor light make sure you get a style that has 360-degree light.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

As bulbs spend most of their watts on heating, rather than lighting, I am thinking of replacing them w/ LEDs. I am curious if anyone has done this? I have 5 curtsey lights lights in the boat that I am thinking of replacing. I am also thinking of replacing them w/ red LEDs as not destroy my night vision. I also want to replace my anchor light w/ a white LED, instead of a bulb. I have found a couple websites that sell them, though it doesn't appear iboats or any other larger etailers/retailers sell them. Less power usage and longer lasting, I am surprised this is not an industry standard.


http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=/mini-wedge.html
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=12v+wedge+led&_sacat=0

Kind Regards,

Hostage

I've replaced all the interior lighting with LED's on both my current boat and the last one. I like them.

Be advised that for Stern and/or Nav light replacement, the USCG certifies BOTH the lamp and lens together when they approve nav lighting for marine use. What this means is simple- NO manufacturer makes an LED bulb alone, that is approved for your boat. You MUST replace the entire fixture. An LED bulb shining through a lens meant for an incandescent bulb is not compliant. I doubt anyone would know enough to fine you, but the lightwave characteristics of LEDs and incandescents is very different, and you can't assume that a bastardized installation will be visible to the 2nm limit at night.

I just replaced my stern pole light with a complete LED setup from Innovative Lighting (iboats sells some of their products), and I'm installing the new LED nav lights next week.

My .02

 

[64osby]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

On my 14' Tinny project I have installed fixtures from a scrap boat to get lighting, nav and anchor. The motor does not need a battery or charge. Trying to eliminate draw, I found some LED's to fit the sockets, 1157's. I searched for quite a while . I found some "bright" vs "warm" bulbs that do fit.

I have not been on the water with it yet, but did a field test. Visual at a half mile from across the field of the two different bulbs in the fixtures. The led's appeared to be brighter than the old standard bulbs to my eyes. If I knew someone with a light meter I would have them tested.

Not official, maybe not legal, but for fishing at night at the small lakes around it should be more than enough. There are many on these lakes with no lights at all.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

While I'm sure there is some sort of "certification testing" for the nav lights, I'm willing to bet that about any LED bulb you put in the stock incandescent housing will be much brighter than the old filament-bulbs. As was mentioned, it is very unlikely that anyone would even know to question the type of blub in the housing. Even better, they are waterproof and last 30X's as long, which is much more suitable for a marine application. They took a while to be adopted into the aviation world, too, but that's because they take certifications very seriously in the aviation field. You can't hardly tighten a screw without an certified aircraft mechanic present to sign off on it, lol.

 

[bgc]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

I went to LED on my larger boat.
I went with brighter lights in the cabin and dimmer lights on the dash. (superbrights give you a chart for output comparison) My nav lights are a bit brighter.
On my 63 I am sticking with the incandescent for the nav lights as the lenses are blue and red. The yellow bulb makes it look green, amber LEDs are still too white to get it to look correct.

 

[hostage]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

I am going to a scuba meeting today and the president of the club also happens to be a maritime lawyer. I will seek his advice on this topic of replacing the bulb with a non-USGC approved LED. I will also ask a coworker he is former CG.

I did find that there are some approved LED replacement bulbs: http://www.doctorled.com/Dr_LED_PRESS_RELEASE_0612.pdf

I will also look at the iboat's LED light fixtures. though mine is angled

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

While I'm sure there is some sort of "certification testing" for the nav lights, I'm willing to bet that about any LED bulb you put in the stock incandescent housing will be much brighter than the old filament-bulbs. As was mentioned, it is very unlikely that anyone would even know to question the type of blub in the housing. Even better, they are waterproof and last 30X's as long, which is much more suitable for a marine application. They took a while to be adopted into the aviation world, too, but that's because they take certifications very seriously in the aviation field. You can't hardly tighten a screw without an certified aircraft mechanic present to sign off on it, lol.

Depends... Boat navigation light housings are meant to house bulbs that emit light horizontally out the side. Many LED's are set up for motor vehicle use, where the direction of light is often parallel to the base socket. Drop one of those bulbs in, and I can absolutely guarantee you will have far LESS light than a regular old incandescent.

I'm sure this works this way in the aircraft world, I know it works this way in the motor vehicle world, and I'm guessing boating is the same. Dropping in an LED into a fixture meant for an incandescent light is an instant violation. The only time you can use an LED is in a fixture meant for one. In the vehicle world, all light fixtures are DOT certified. Using an LED makes the entire light assembly no longer DOT compliant.

 

[bgc]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

The cabin light in the upper center of the photo has a greater light output with the new LED. You can get them in a variety of output levels. The bulb is a single contact bayonet (automotive tail light type)

 

[JoLin]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

While I'm sure there is some sort of "certification testing" for the nav lights, I'm willing to bet that about any LED bulb you put in the stock incandescent housing will be much brighter than the old filament-bulbs.

You can do whatever you want, of course, but I have to wonder why LED replacement bulbs haven't been certified- seems it would be fairly easy, and many manufacturers could make some bucks on the bulbs just by labeling them 'for marine use' and tripling the price.

In terms of risk, I consider night boating second only to running in fog. I don't want to 'bet' that my optics are much brighter than an incandescent, and for the same distance. I want to KNOW that my nav lights (bulb and optics) have been tested and certified out to the legal limit. That's me.

My .02

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

Depends... Boat navigation light housings are meant to house bulbs that emit light horizontally out the side. Many LED's are set up for motor vehicle use, where the direction of light is often parallel to the base socket. Drop one of those bulbs in, and I can absolutely guarantee you will have far LESS light than a regular old incandescent.

I'm sure this works this way in the aircraft world, I know it works this way in the motor vehicle world, and I'm guessing boating is the same. Dropping in an LED into a fixture meant for an incandescent light is an instant violation. The only time you can use an LED is in a fixture meant for one. In the vehicle world, all light fixtures are DOT certified. Using an LED makes the entire light assembly no longer DOT compliant.

Most of the modern LED replacements utilize multiple LED's in either a cluster or in multiple arrays. The LED bulbs can be designed to output in several different dispersement patterns, from 60 to 360-degrees. It just depends on what you buy and how the light needs to leave the housing. Some of the bulbs have 20+ LED's on one bulb in order to recreate the pattern made by an incandescent, slill using less power and being infinitely brighter than the filament.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

You can do whatever you want, of course, but I have to wonder why LED replacement bulbs haven't been certified- seems it would be fairly easy, and many manufacturers could make some bucks on the bulbs just by labeling them 'for marine use' and tripling the price.

In terms of risk, I consider night boating second only to running in fog. I don't want to 'bet' that my optics are much brighter than an incandescent, and for the same distance. I want to KNOW that my nav lights (bulb and optics) have been tested and certified out to the legal limit. That's me.

My .02

Well, think of it in terms of the auto industry. The led replacements have been available with the common auto-bulb bases for a decade now, but are not usually labeled as "certified". They sell them under the off-road use only guise that pretty much every other aftermarket parts maker has used. Very rarely are those parts used only off-road, but they are rarely enforced as such. If you have access to a light meter (find a photographer friend) you could easily verify the specs on the LEDs. There is an absolute rush in many of the aviation circles to replace every light on the aircraft with LED's (and in some cases xenon HID for landing/taxi lights). Power consumption is a major focus for aircraft owners, and using LED's that offer better visibility (proven/verified), lower power use, and longer life has made it a boom market. People paying several hundred dollars to convert a single light!

In reference to boating, LED's will become the standard (they already are on many luxury brands, especially on interior and transom lighting). It will just be a matter of time before it reaches all of them.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

I have no idea how aircraft lighting is configured, but in the rush to replace exisiting lights with LED's, are the LED's being used in the existing light fixtures with the existing optics, or are entire assemblies being replaced? (I'm not talking about cabin lights- I mean the 'running lights' on the exterior of the aircraft).

Xenon HID's are meant to light up the runway, as are those 'offroad' lights. They're designed to help one see what's immediately in front, not to help one 'be seen' over a great distance. There's a difference. Also in terms of automotive use, to the best of my knowledge there's no requirement that auto taillights and sidelights be 'passively visible' to a distance of 2nm.

Again, not being an optical engineeer (if that's the correct term), I'll go with my understanding that both the light emitting source (bulb or LED) and its optical 'lens' must be integrated to work optimally together; and that LED bulbs retrofitted to a lens meant to house an incandescent bulb, don't meet requirements. If they did somebody would have certified the bulbs by now.

My .02

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

On my 14' Tinny project I have installed fixtures from a scrap boat to get lighting, nav and anchor. The motor does not need a battery or charge. Trying to eliminate draw, I found some LED's to fit the sockets, 1157's. I searched for quite a while . I found some "bright" vs "warm" bulbs that do fit.

I have not been on the water with it yet, but did a field test. Visual at a half mile from across the field of the two different bulbs in the fixtures. The led's appeared to be brighter than the old standard bulbs to my eyes. If I knew someone with a light meter I would have them tested.

Not official, maybe not legal, but for fishing at night at the small lakes around it should be more than enough. There are many on these lakes with no lights at all.

Some boats are not required to have nav lights. They must have a lantern to turn on to avoid a collision. They are in the row boat and sail class.

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

The Xenon/LED (they use both types) landing lights are made to see the runway while landing/departing, but they are used to spot the aircraft from miles out. The lights don't provide a bit of use until 20ft over the runway, but they are used several miles out to help with aircraft identification, especially in adverse weather. The changing of the housing is dependent on the conversion/certification specs. Some use existing lens, some use clear lens w/colored LED.

I would also have you look at a lot of the existing incandescent marine light housing/lens designs. I have seen everything from flat lenses, to rippled lenses, to smooth convex lenses. I highly doubt they found a half-dozen different lens designs to "optimize" the light output for the same bulb. I'll leave this discussion at that, merely because it doesn't help to make any further comparisons without having real-world specs on light output/visibility. I would just suffice it to say that with an appropriate LED bulb in an incandescent fixture, you would be hard-pressed to have worse lighting performance.

 

[64osby]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

Some boats are not required to have nav lights. They must have a lantern to turn on to avoid a collision. They are in the row boat and sail class.

I decided to put nav / anchor lights on my boat to make it a little safer. If I remember the LED's that were used have 36 LED's configured to emit a 360 degree output at about 270 degrees as looking at the edge. Mine look like this

I also had to make sure that the light would fit in the fixtures, as most LED's are larger than the standard bulbs

 

[JoLin]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

Haulnazz, I'm dropping it, too. I have my take on the subject, you have yours. Interesting debate, tho.

 

[hostage]

Re: Replacing 12v 10w wedge bulbs w/ LEDs?

I spoke to the lawyer last night and he mentioned that they would have no real way of knowing what type of bulb you have in there. However, I didn't go into a discussion about liability if an accident occurs.