Reinvented axle???

[maproy99]

Just came up with this idea while trying to thing of a way to solve some of a tandem axle's scrub issues while turning.



Thinking about my idea a bit more. Re invent the axle. How many problems do people have with bent axles? It happens sometimes and next you know your buying new tires.
1. Slice the axle off about 5 inches in from the hub.
2. Mount a circular plate on top of the axle just inside of where you cut.
3. Put the leaf springs on bearings on the circular plate.
4. Attach a heavy duty spring to pull the circular plate clockwise towards the back of the trailer.
5. Attach another heavy duty spring to pull the circular plate counter clockwise towards the front of the trailer.
6. Where both heavy duty springs attach to the trailer place an adjuster of some sort.
7. Put tire on and while trailer is jacked up adjust the springs for the tire to run straight.
8. Repeat with the 3 other tires.

I can post a sketch if anyone wants (have to draw it first). Looking at it in my head I believe this would work. Any comments? Could use on a tri-axle trailer too and leave the axle on the center to pivot around. If the springs are the correct strength, then they should allow the wheel to turn slightly to relieve pressure while making re alignments easy and quick to do, might not even ever have to realign again as the tires should adjust a bit if they are off while the person is driving, but the springs should keep the tires almost completely straight while going straight.

Am I on to something, or did I miss something? :facepalm:

If you vote Minor design change, please specify why.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Reinvented axle???

If I picture it correctly ... you hit the brakes and all four wheels toe out badly ???

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Reinvented axle???

never work... not in a million years.... sorry.... the forces are lateral and the movement is not. ALSO the benefit doesn't outweigh the cost.... Either of those factors would be enough to sink you.

It would be possible to design a system that steered the tires with lateral force but if it steered correctly for forward motion, it would steer wrong for backing up... a system to reverse the mechanism when backing would make an already over complicated system much more complex... Much cheaper for the average trailer to just replace the tires with half tread when they dry rot instead of replacing them with 2/3 tread when they dry rot with the new improved, ten times the cost, axle system.

I'm sure this isn't what you hoped to hear... sorry

 

[Sabbath]

Re: Reinvented axle???

Next stop the wheel?


Seriously though, overcomplicating the issue.

 

[halfmoa]

Re: Reinvented axle???

Have you ever seen a wheel wobble when a tie rod breaks? Google it. It's a violent "wagging" type motion. That's the outcome I'm picturing here when this rig hits highway speed.

I will say, however, if the springs were replaced with linear actuators that could be released and secured at will it's not a bad idea...just more parts to fail. Bearings are bad enough to worry about.

How about that drawing? Maybe I'm missing something here.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Reinvented axle???

never work... not in a million years.... sorry.... the forces are lateral and the movement is not.

+1... You didn't calculate the force vectors correctly. Doesn't matter if you have a spring that allows the wheel to turn, its never going to turn. You need castor on the wheel, which doesn't exist in a trailer setup. The only way to get castor would be to use a torsion axle and move your steering point forward, but then you bring in a whole slew of other issues.

I also agree, the cost of ANY system you can come up with far exceeds the cost of a set of new tires every couple of years. Added complication, weight, maintenance, etc... Seriously, the easiest/cheapest would be air bag suspension, with manual controls that would allow you to air up one axle, and drop the other. Basically for a tight turn you could take almost all the weight off one set of wheels and pretty much make scrubbing a non-issue. Given how simple/light weight/cheap that would be, it tells you something that not a single boat trailer uses it. (yes, there may be some SHIP trailers that have this system, meant to be pulled by a semi...)

 

[maproy99]

Re: Reinvented axle???

:redface: I kinda figured I had to have over looked something, but maybe hydraulics instead of springs? Then you would have a steerable axle, just have to think of a controller then. lol Its fun to just think of plans for new stuff, and if it makes someone else think of a way it would actually work, then I fell I did a good job.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Reinvented axle???

In our history lots of things that worked well begain as serious failures and some that never worked at all were constant failures. If one looks at multi-axle trucks, the tag axles (those that are not powered) often have steerability. However those axles almost always have air springs to lift the axle clear of the ground for various reasons. Unfortunately, the system you have described is a poor and unworkable way to provide that steerability. Axles are available (costly) with vertical king pins (pivots) on which the steering knuckle and spindle are mounted. Look at the front axle on an old leave sprung car or pickup to get the idea. That system with wheels interconnected by a tie-rod and a shock absorber can be set up with the proper toe-in to work with or without brakes. You would only need the system on the rear axle on a tandem setup. But again, cost and complexity are limiting factors for this intended purpose. But since since many products are born on trial and error don't let us try and talk you out of making it work. Just make sure if you do succeed that there is a market for what you succeeded in making.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Reinvented axle???

If the issue is scrubbing when doing tight turns with a tandem, I wondered if it would be possible to have a very heavy duty single axle, but with dual rear wheel tires (probably not because of width constraints) that would give you the load capacity with one axle, no scrubbing around turns. It would be simpler than the above idea, and the tooling for wheel rims etc is already out there for dual rear wheel pick up trucks....

 

[Cheetah 210es]

Re: Reinvented axle???

Twin wheels not an option either, most boats sit between the wheels and to use twins you'd either have to have wider axle/frame or sit the boat higher. Any boat big enough that it needs a tandem axle is heavy and to put that weight higher up with the weight of the motor sitting on its butt would make it highly unstable and you'd also have to reverse further into the drink at the ramp unless you put an extra 10' on drawbar.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Reinvented axle???

there are plenty of boats that get hauled on dually wheel axles

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: Reinvented axle???

I would have to see a drawing before i could comment or vote.

 

[Cheetah 210es]

Re: Reinvented axle???

there are plenty of boats that get hauled on dually wheel axles
View attachment 124946View attachment 124947

K. 99.999% of tow rigs are a little bit smaller than that. The sheer size of that catamaran warrants a truck though the trailer is way overkill with that many axles, which incidently will be steered on that rig which is what this thread started about.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Reinvented axle???

yeah... I wasn't arguing.... just helping make ur point


sometimes my humor is a weeee bit dry

 

[Cheetah 210es]

Re: Reinvented axle???

Think they'd float that off or crane it?

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Reinvented axle???

Think they'd float that off or crane it?

a driver who dunked that many axles would hope to be fired and gone before the owner of the trailer shot him

 

[JDA1975]

Re: Reinvented axle???

We had a 30' dual axle trailer with an electric lift switch in truck to raise one axle for tighter than normal turns, it turned fine on normal curves but right turns and such we just flipped the switch and took the weight off the axle during turn. hydraulics and a way to activate it would be cheaper than trying to reinvent the axle

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: Reinvented axle???

We had a 30' dual axle trailer with an electric lift switch in truck to raise one axle for tighter than normal turns, it turned fine on normal curves but right turns and such we just flipped the switch and took the weight off the axle during turn. hydraulics and a way to activate it would be cheaper than trying to reinvent the axle

That, by far is the simplest and most doable solution. But still not cheap. Lifting one axle makes tight manuevers much easier. Many heavy trucks are set up that way, particularly concrete mixers.

 

[Gun Dog]

Re: Reinvented axle???

Seams like everyone that is suggesting lifting an axle, or doing anything that removes the tire from the road for making turning easier, is forgetting one very important issue. Weight and load rating. A rig has all it's tires and wheels on the road to carry the load. You take one of them away or change the geometry of contact with the road (which happens oftentimes when making turns anyway) the weight rating of each tire and wheel become null. This presents an unsafe condition and increases the risk of tire failure.

Picture the folks that move houses. You won't see a tire leave the surface it's in contact with. They move in unison. If one leaves the surface several will blow.

 

[JDA1975]

Re: Reinvented axle???

the lifting of an axle during a turn doesn't cause trouble since your speed is so slow, we have done this for years...many split tandem axle trailers raise the rear axle for tight turns...try backing one into a parking spot at a truck stop without a liftable axle. as long as the driver remembers to drop the axle again after the turn its not unsafe, although that being said, I have seen may a driver raise an axle and then forget to drop it, causing a tire failure on the now overloaded axle when they get up to speed