Refilling a plastic on deck gas tank from a plastic gas can

[73 Dolphin]

Ok. Im sure its been covered a hundred times but I'm just not finding it in my searches....apologies in advance.

I have a 12 gallon on deck plastic gas tank. It is too heavy to remove from boat and replace when full. I understand that if I tried to fill it in place (in the boat) at the gas pump it would be a problem due to risk of static.

If instead I fill it using plastic gas cans (while its inside the boat) does that mean all is good?

Thanks!

 

[Scott Danforth]

get a second person to help.

full of fuel, its only 80#

 

[ahicks]

When filling something like that at a gas pump, the filler nozzle is grounded. Just keep it in contact with the tank.

I siphon gas from smaller containers myself. I'm not going to even consider moving a 12 gal tank. Maybe 40 years ago....

 

[73 Dolphin]

So you dont know then Scott or have you been drinking? Lol. Lifting an 80 lb tank up 4 feet to rest it on the 6 inch wide curved gunnel ( yes the boat would be trailered ) then have you and your random volunteer both climb in the boat without the tank falling off and breaking isnt an option.

If anyone knows the answer to the question please help.
Also lets says its a 28 gallon tank instead of 12. So now it weighs 168 lbs.

Thanks!

 

[73 Dolphin]

Ahics. Yes the weight is an issue. I actually wrote my first reply as you were posting yours. I dont want to give the impression that you were agreeing with my comment to Scott. Anyways..... I dont see a situation where I would take the boat to the (non dockside) gas station to refuel. I go fill 5 gallon plastic cans on the ground there and place them inside my truck to take home. It's at home where I plan to transfer the gas from the plastic 5 gallon cans to my on deck 12 gallon plastic tank on the deck of the boat.
The question is whether that is the wrong thing to do.
The 12 gallon tank is new and unfilled. Before the new tank I had a 6 gallon tank that I filled on the ground and lifted into the boat.
That tank also had a handle as well as being lighter when full.

 

[Alumarine]

Why is static an issue with a plastic tank on the deck and not when removed from the boat?

 

[73 Dolphin]

Marc C Because when its on the ground its grounded and when its on the deck it isn't. Plastic cant ground to plastic or fiberglass. The static charge between the plastics cant be grounded. At least that's what Ive read. The question is on the 28 gallon tanks that Moeller sell that would weigh 168 lbs full, are they being filled on the ground and lifted in the boat by body builders or are they being filled in the boat?
And if they are being filled in the boat how is this being done safely? I'm hoping someone who has one can chime in.
Also because I'm looking to fill a plastic tank from a plastic tank with a plastic spout does this increase or reduce the risk of static? All very confusing.

 

[JASinIL2006]

The static is an issue when in a truck with bedliner or a boat with a non-conductive surface. Static builds up in the tank and cannot dissipate.

Seems the easiest solution is to do what lots of refuelers do: use a grounding strap between the tank and the fuel source, and to be extra safe, between the tank and the earth or the boat itself (in case the gas pump/hose isn't properly grounded). A couple of wires with alligator clips on both ends would let you ground the tank while fueling.

 

[73 Dolphin]

I did already try to contact Moeller directly but their calls go to voicemails with full inboxes maybe because of corona virus.

 

[Scott Danforth]

static discharge is an issue with any plastic tank anywhere, the amount of static build up depends on humitidy, body chemisty the cloths you are wearing and other factors.

the primary reason for filling outside the boat is the inevitable spilling into the boat. boats with outboards and portable tanks generally do not have blowers (however they should). any spill becomes heavy fuel vapors in the hull.

I never really understood the 12 gallon "portable" tanks. 6 gallon tanks are heavy enough when drinking. plus having two tanks means that when you run out of fuel, you have enough fuel in the other tank to get back.

 

[73 Dolphin]

The static is an issue when in a truck with bedliner or a boat with a non-conductive surface. Static builds up in the tank and cannot dissipate.

Seems the easiest solution is to do what lots of refuelers do: use a grounding strap between the tank and the fuel source, and to be extra safe, between the tank and the earth or the boat itself (in case the gas pump/hose isn't properly grounded). A couple of wires with alligator clips on both ends would let you ground the tank while fueling.

Again everything here is plastic. Are you saying running a wire from my ground to the plastic gas tank will work?

 

[Captain Caveman]

Marc c is on the right track.

The danger of filling gas cans is the static discharge that we potentially carry before fueling. If you ground yourself then you eliminate the danger. If you are transporting 6 gallon cans to fill a 12 gallon tank, you could still have static discharge. The key is to make sure that you've touched something (grounded yourself) before grabbing the gas can or fuel nozzle.

The same goes with filling the tank in your boat directly at the gas station. If you have a carpeted floor and are standing on it when beginning to fuel, that could create a static spark. If you are outside of the boat, ground yourself on the metal boat or gas station's fuel pump before removing the gas tank cap, you will be fine. You should make sure that you have grounded the 12 gallon tank in your boat to prevent the static buildup that occur just from the act of fueling.

There are lots of great articles out there:
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/98-11.../NIOSHPUB98111
https://nasdonline.org/186/d001589/f...ns-safely.html
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/st...ty-pump-fires/
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ticle13367207/

 

[73 Dolphin]

static discharge is an issue with any plastic tank anywhere, the amount of static build up depends on humitidy, body chemisty the cloths you are wearing and other factors.

the primary reason for filling outside the boat is the inevitable spilling into the boat. boats with outboards and portable tanks generally do not have blowers (however they should). any spill becomes heavy fuel vapors in the hull.

I never really understood the 12 gallon "portable" tanks. 6 gallon tanks are heavy enough when drinking. plus having two tanks means that when you run out of fuel, you have enough fuel in the other tank to get back.

Maybe I'll just take this back and exchange it for another 6 gallon then. Problem is its a 15 foot skiff and tall 12 takes up the same footprint as a single 6. Not really enough room for 2 tanks. The problem is not spilling the gas though. Its risk of explosion. And yeah I know it rarely happens. I've never seen a fire at a gas station but it happens. I've seen people fill tanks in the back of trucks, smoking, using cell phones. Its not like I'm sucking gas out of a tank with a shop vac ! Still I'd like to be able to use the new tank.'

 

[gm280]

When I fill my standard "plastic" 5 gallon gas can (yard equipment gas can), I always touch the gas filler spout to the plastic tank when filling. And I have been doing that for many decades. Since I am posting today, I guess it never exploded on me. Go figure.

If it really was a seriously dangerous issue, wouldn't we be reading about explosions daily in the news with the EPA making recalls for every plastic tank even manufactured by now?

Common sense has to play into everything. But since even stupid people fill their plastic tanks in ever conceivable fashion known to man, I am sure we would be reading about those issues in the news. Just my opinion.

 

[73 Dolphin]

When I fill my standard "plastic" 5 gallon gas can (yard equipment gas can), I always touch the gas filler spout to the plastic tank when filling. And I have been doing that for many decades. Since I am posting today, I guess it never exploded on me. Go figure.

If it really was a seriously dangerous issue, wouldn't we be reading about explosions daily in the news with the EPA making recalls for every plastic tank even manufactured by now?

Common sense has to play into everything. But since even stupid people fill their plastic tanks in ever conceivable fashion known to man, I am sure we would be reading about those issues in the news. Just my opinion.

I never said that I didn't know how to fill a gas tank at the gas station. You are filling your gas can the right way. It didn't explode. Go figure!
The question was filling it on the boat. You don't fill a gas tank in the back of a pick up with a bed liner for the same reason.
Yes its rare but it happens. Its about static. The charge doesn't get grounded on a boat the way it does on the ground. IE not at all. Just looking to find the best way to do it.

 

[gm280]

I never said that I didn't know how to fill a gas tank at the gas station. You are filling your gas can the right way. It didn't explode. Go figure!
The question was filling it on the boat. You don't fill a gas tank in the back of a pick up with a bed liner for the same reason.
Yes its rare but it happens. Its about static. The charge doesn't get grounded on a boat the way it does on the ground. IE not at all. Just looking to find the best way to do it.

First of all, I really wasn't trying to be judgmental about anyone in the least. I merely stated what I've been doing. And YES, I do fill my 5 gallon plastic gas can in the back of my pickup truck that has a spray in bed liner. And I have been doing that for over twenty years without issues. Again, I usually touch the filler spout to the plastic can before starting any gas flow. And therefore The plastic can becomes the same static potential as the gas pump.

And here is something to ponder. A lot of vehicles now come with plastic gas tanks. And since the rubber tires isolates the vehicle from ground, you are filling a plastic gas tank that is not strapped to ground in any way. And nobody is exploding themselves. The instant you touch the filler spout to the vehicle, the static charge becomes equal, not necessarily grounded, but equal. So not voltage potential exist and therefore no spark happens.

And again, not trying to start any type argument in the least. Just stating my opinion and how I do things. That's all!

 

[73 Dolphin]

First of all, I really wasn't trying to be judgmental about anyone in the least. I merely stated what I've been doing. And YES, I do fill my 5 gallon plastic gas can in the back of my pickup truck that has a spray in bed liner. And I have been doing that for over twenty years without issues. Again, I usually touch the filler spout to the plastic can before starting any gas flow. And therefore The plastic can becomes the same static potential as the gas pump.

And here is something to ponder. A lot of vehicles now come with plastic gas tanks. And since the rubber tires isolates the vehicle from ground, you are filling a plastic gas tank that is not strapped to ground in any way. And nobody is exploding themselves. The instant you touch the filler spout to the vehicle, the static charge becomes equal, not necessarily grounded, but equal. So not voltage potential exist and therefore no spark happens.

And again, not trying to start any type argument in the least. Just stating my opinion and how I do things. That's all!

If the tires stopped the vehicle from grounding, how would the electrical system work? I think you are confusing chassis grounding with physical grounding. Either way I just got worried about filling the gas can in the boat given the dire warnings I've seen.

 

[gm280]

If the tires stopped the vehicle from grounding, how would the electrical system work? I think you are confusing chassis grounding with physical grounding. Either way I just got worried about filling the gas can in the boat given the dire warnings I've seen.

First of all, I think you are mixing positive and negative electrical system with static charge.

Static charge can be on any item, even metal. And if isolated from Earth ground to neutralize that static charge, it is still a static difference of potential. That doesn't effect the typical 12 volt positive and negative electrical system in most vehicles.

A vehicle's ignition and electrical system can work and still have a static charge on the vehicle that is different then Earth ground. Scrub your feet across a carpet on a cold dry day and touch a door knob or metal object. That is static charge and it doesn't effect any other electrical item in the house. You can even be using your smartphone while touching the door knob and nothing happens to the smartphone. So you can have your vehicle running and still have a huge static charge on the vehicle that will try to jump to Earth ground to neutralize...

And for a matter of fact, we are daily confronted with static charge all the time regardless of weather conditions. But the reason we don't feel that zap all the time is because of the humidity in the air. The higher the humidity the less we see and fell that zap. But it is still there.

 

[73 Dolphin]

Not looking for an argument either. Just wanting to know if filling my 12 gallon plastic tank on board using 5 gallon plastic gas cans is a problem or not.

 

[ahicks]

I've been doing it for years, and I'm still here to write about if that answers your question.