Rect/Reg, Stator or both??

[MASTER Brian]

Ok, I have reason to believe I have a bad stator and/or rectifier/regulator on my 86 E150XP.

Some of this is duplicated herehttp://forums.iboats.com/bbBoard.cg...nf=vtcFhWT;toa=viewthread;fid=28;gtid=1158622, but people were confused about the initial problem, which is fixed, so I started a specific thread about this.

Here are my reasons...
1) The tach isn't always consistant in working. Sometimes it looses signal and I'm not certain it hits peak RPM's. Seems more consitant at mid RPMS.
2) My new fishfinder reads volts at battery and it doesn't increase as motor is reved (sp?).
3) After running this engine for 10 hours the battery itself isn't charged. Volts on fishfinder showed 11.8V and dropped to 11.5V with accessories on the other night.
4) Battery was almost dead, but it tested good. So it's obviously not receiving a charge.

I have started running a few tests on the electrics. At this point I have a multi-meter which I used to verify fishfinder volts are close to accurate. I got 12.4V at battery and the finder showed 12.2V.

I also tested did the Charge coil Ohmmeter Test and I got 743 Ohms on the starbird side and 816 Ohms on the port side. I had the meter set at 2000. The manual calls for 970 +/-15 Ohms. I also did the test for grounds and found none. The tests for grounds lets you know the stator isn't grounding out, when it shouldn't be.

I then went in and did a few ohm tests on the rect/reg.

The first test I did there was connecting the black wire from ohmmeter to the red wire from the rect/reg and the red wire from ohmmeter to the yellow wire from the rect/reg. I got -1100 Ohms. I then did the same, but using the yellow/gray wire this time and got -600 Ohms. These numbers jumped around a bit, but leveled off at the numbers posted. If I reversed the red and black wires of the ohm meter I got a reading of "1", which is where my digital ohm meter "rests". On this test, I forget, exactly where the ohmmeter was set. It was either at 2000 or 2000K. If that matters. The leads tested from rect/reg were unhooked from terminal strip in this test and the next.

Then I set my ohm meter on high 2000K and connected black wire on ohm meter to yellow wire of reg and red wire of ohm meter to ground. -715 is the reading I got.
Red wire on ohm meter to yellow wire and black wire of ohm meter to ground. Ohm meter stayed at "1".
Black wire on ohm meter to yellow/gray wire and red wire of ohm meter to ground. -730.
Red wire on ohm metere to yellow/gray wire and black wire of ohm meter to ground. Ohm meter stayed at "1".
I ohmed the gray wire and got 9, both ways.
I did this test before realizing it is the method outlined for motors that don't have the rect/reg combined. Is it still accurate for my engine? The manual calls for an ammeter test while running on my engine. I'm not certain the ammeter I just picked up works. Haven't tried that function yet, but I couldn't get the ohmmeter on it to work right.

In the other thread we determined that my rect/reg was bad, but what about stator?

I'm not good at electrical testing, and am a bit confused.

It looks to me like they are testing the charge coil on the stator, when it seems to me they are having me hook up the tester to the excite coils. Am I wrong? The wires I'm hooking up from the stator are brown/black and brown/yellow, yet they go to the Power Pack(s). The yellow wires are what goes to the rectifier and in my logic would be the wires from the charge coil. Am I confused??

Without spending another $100 +/- on other meters to run more tests not to mention more evenings wasted and $20 trips to the lake is it safe to say my symptoms and results would be the stator and/or rect/reg?

The stator is almost $300, the rectifier/reg is a little over $200. I don't want to waste money, but should I just buy both and be done?? Is there anything else that could cause my issues?

I am also worried if I buy just the rect/reg and the stator is bad, it could take the new rect/reg with it. Is that a safe assumption?

I'd like to place the order for any parts today (tomorrow at the latest) so they are here by the weekend.

Thanks, I hope that wasn't too much...

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Rect/Reg, Stator or both??

Ok, jtexas replied this in the previous thread....

The rapair guide says the acceptable range of charge coil resistance on a 1986 150 with 35-amp alternator is 735 to 935. It also says the wires are brown and brown/yellow. Sorry I don't really know what to make of the discrepancy with the OMC manual....

Not sure we ever determined whether the battery is charging, but if it is, then the rectifier is good. You can determine that by observing your fishfinder while running the motor...if volts increase then it's charging.

Mine doesn't give me those specs and it just shows a plug. It just says 970 +/-15ohms. What manual do you have? Maybe the stator is ok.

There was no volt increase on fishfinder while running. I have ruled out that it could have been a bad battery.

If I buy just a rect/reg and stator is bad, will it ruin my new rect/reg? I really want to go to lake this weekend and not worry. I won't have a chance to run boat until maybe Thurs night, at which point it's too late to order parts for the weekend. If the stator won't take the new rectifier/regulator with it. I suppose I could buy that and see if my charging and tach issues go away. If not replace stator.

Stator contains separate sets of coils for rectifier, triggers and the charge coil. All independant.

That's what I would think as well, so why is the stator charge coil test, testing wires that run to the PP? Wouldn't the yellow wires be from the charge coil???

 

[jtexas]

Re: Rect/Reg, Stator or both??

It's the terminology that's getting you...the "charge coil" is what charges up the powerpacks (not the battery charging system). The powerpack "charges" a capacitor, just like a camera flash, where you turn it on and it charges up, except it doesn't take nearly as long. It powers the ignition coils which fire when triggered by the triggers.

I'm refering to this: http://rapair.com/Portals/0/downloads/TroubleshootingGuide.pdf

But I wouldn't expect it to override the OMC manual...someone else may know better...or an email to Rapair might help clear it up. I think Rapair is a pretty reputable company.

Your ohm tests indicate faulty rectifier.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Rect/Reg, Stator or both??

Ok, I'll get a rectifier ordered.

If my stator is bad, can that ruin the new rectifier??

Thanks for clearing up the terminology...

 

[red boat]

Re: Rect/Reg, Stator or both??

A bad stator can ruin a rectifier/regulator, and I am speaking from words of experience. I replaced a rec/reg on my 1990 xp-200 and after 30 mins of running battery voltage started going crazy and tach started acting up again. The dealer I purchased the rec/reg from agreed to replace the rec/reg under OMC's warranty only if I purcahsed a stator also. I replaced both and have not had another problem since.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: Rect/Reg, Stator or both??

Sounds like I'll likely be getting both. I called the dealer and they are checking their specs and should be calling me back.

Thanks for that feedback!