Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

[MickLovin]

Just as a matter of curiosity, what can you check when you look at the recirculating system with a 100HP Chrysler, I heard if it cause problems with the puddle drain??. I haven't water tested my 100HP yet, but have the carbies synced and ready for water test, but I have noticed wet plugs when removing them, this could be cause it is a bit rich and needs a final tune, OR could it mean I need to clean out the PUDDLE drain???? My reeds are fine as I checked them when putting the TC carbies on from WB, Sounds sexier to with the TC carbs nice and throaty.

Anyway please help with explaining the puddle drain system and what to check, repair, replace or clean out. When I first got this motor, it had the fuel pump diaphragm with a large crack in it, so it has been replaced with new and gaskets.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

These are the covers for the fuel recirculation or puddle drains (red arrows). There are gaskets under the covers which may be damaged when you remove them.



Notice there is a small hose that goes from the bottom of the puddle drain cover to the By-Pass cover. There is a one way check valve in the drain cover by the fitting that the hose connects to. It may be similar to a reed valve on your motor. There may also be a small mesh screen too. I guess it acts as a filter. Later models used a spring loaded steel ball as a check valve. Sometimes old fuel/oil mixture gums up the check valve preventing it from working properly.

At low RPMs the fuel/oil mixture tends to build up in the area of the crank case where the drains are located. The idea is to prevent any build up and suck the excess fuel/oil mixture out of that area and dump it into the By-Pass passage so it can be burned. At higher RPMs the fuel/oil mixture has enough speed to prevent any build up. Maybe one of the more experienced folks can chime in if there is something that I haven't explained correctly.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

Thx pnwboat, you gave me an idea how they work, much appreciated.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

The wet plugs? That's from running an oil/gas mixture.
Dry plugs are for a 4stroke.
The recirc systemshould be checked if the motor has any amount of time.
The gaskets will probably rip/tear as you take them off.

The older style has a small reed and a screen in there.
The screen is real hard to find.
It really doesn't need to be in there if you can't find new ones or destroy the old.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

Thanks guys great info as always

 

[esimmons92]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

My motor has issues at neutral, it seems as if it will not idle completely down. i have adjusted my idle screw on my the main tower and it has not helped at all. However I just cleaned out my carbs and when I went to put the air intake plate on and I noticed that there seemed to be a bit of dirt in the pipe that catches unused fuel. after a bit more investigation the hose was completely clogged and no air or fuel was getting through. could this be the cause for my motor not idling down at neutral ???

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

Watch the video at the top of the page---Tutorial-- and synchronize your carbs and timing.

 

[esimmons92]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

I actually failed to mention that I already did the tutorial you made. while it was extremely helpful if did not completely resolve my issue. as of right now I do not have a tach so I do not know the exact idle speed but it is much higher than it should be. runs about 1/2 throttle But then when I barely go into gear it cuts way down to a normal speed.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

The symptoms you are describing are usually not due to a clogged recirculating system. Rather it would appear that the power is down. Start with basic checks of compression and spark to ensure the engine is running on all cylinders.

 

[esimmons92]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

The symptoms you are describing are usually not due to a clogged recirculating system. Rather it would appear that the power is down. Start with basic checks of compression and spark to ensure the engine is running on all cylinders.

I Have done these things also, I am getting a good spark on all cylinders and compression is 145 +/- 3 on each cylinder

 

[MickLovin]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

So from what you are saying, you have all your carburettors cleaned and blown out with air etc, as that is what I would do after finding junk in my recirc. system and then you have done your carb sunc and timing, including your throttle link adjustment and cam adjustments as per the video? Also you haven't mentioned what type of outboard you have, I take it, it is a Chrysler, what HP? what year?

Frank is correct as usual but depending on your system, the first thing I would be doing is cleaning/bathing my carbies as syncing dirty carbies may not fix your problem if they are not delivering fuel correctly, also I would be checking my Float levels as these may be set to high and not shutting off the fuel correctly via the needle and seat. But you may want to start at the beginning, depending on your frequent or infrequent use. This would be starting at the fuel tank and making sure there is no rubbish in the tank and cleaning the tank, then I would be checking age of lines and all connections for air tightness. Ok so you have done the tank checked the air valve on the tank and checked all your lines. The fuel pump is next, check your diaphragm ( you will need a new gasket so a new diaphragm and gasket is what you may as well get. It was my preference but I put a water/filter before my pump and clear reinforced fuel line, this was to see if any air was entering the lines. You then clean your carbies and then you sync them and do check your timing again.

I made the mistake of doing my tank last and found out the hard way, by having to re-do my carbies.

After saying all of this, I am wondering what made you look at the recirc. system? I would be checking my fuel diaphram for cracks/holes.

Frank is the Master of Chrysler's I have chatted so far, but you have to have clean carbs first and a clean fuel delivery, otherwise you will be cleaning your carbs anyway or even worse running your engine lean.

Sorry for so much info, but hope it helps.

 

[esimmons92]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

I appreciate all the help !!!!
for clarity let me back track just a bit.
I have a 3 cylinder, 2 stroke, 75hp,1979 Chrysler motor (757h9e)

A few notes: apparently the carbs had been rebuilt a few years back and replaced the fuel line from the pump to the carbs also.

I restored my boat over last winter so last summer was the 1st time I cranked the motor, it had sat for probably 4 years before I got it.
things I have done to it in order:

In the summer - fall 2013
1 - replaced all fuel line from the tank to the pump, added a inline fuel filter, and cleaned the tank out .
2 - replaced my cracked fuel pump diaphragm and gasket, replaced spark plugs.
3 - synced my carbs per the tutorial, adjusted the idle screw, and adjusted fuel mixture screw.
4 - cleaned bowls of carbs, replaced gaskets between carbs and air intake, checked fuel line from pump to the carbs to make sure they were okay and clean (they were), cleaned air intake which was extremely dirty.
5 - realized timing issue had started to causing a miss in cylinder 2. adjusted timing and replaced spark plugs again.
6 - checked compression (145 +/- 3 on each cylinder), checked for spark on all cylinders.
7 - checked the carb bowls again and there was more junk in them. I believe this came from disintegrating bowl gasket.
8 - checked the distributor to make sure it wasn't corroded (appeared to be relatively new)
(I am sure that I have missed some but this is most of it).

Winter 2014
9 - Took carbs off and cleaned them and replaced the bowl gasket, bowl screw gaskets, and gaskets between powerhead and carbs. (the float was almost within factory specs when i took it off)

When I went to put the carbs back on I decided I would wait to put the air intake back on so that I can deep clean that also. while I was putting the carbs on I noticed that the hose at the bottom of the air intake was visibly dirty. so I decided that I should go ahead and replace all fuel line. (from the pump to the carbs and all of my recirc system hoses) when I took these off, I decided to clean out the hose from the bottom of the air intake (fuel return hose) and that is when I found about a 2 inch long clog of dirt.

So I have not tested the motor since I cleaned the carbs... while my carbs were dirty I don't think they were so bad that they would cause my whole issue. I know I will have to re-sync the carbs before I test it. I really don't like the idea of running my motor on the winter so I am trying to solve as many of the issues now. I plan to do a test in a few weeks, once I get all the lines replaced and a tach.

I am thinking (or at least hoping) that this clog could be my issue.I guess I am think of it like a vacuum cleaner, when you plug up the hose it revs up to try and get more air. Maybe since it is clogged it is doing the same thing at low speeds? IDK just a thought?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

Sorry double post

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

Esimmons92, just for clarification.....Your problem is that the idle speed is too high? Looks like you've tried most of the adjustments. There is one more. The adjustable shaft that goes between the tower shaft and the throttle cam. Both ends are threaded and you can adjust the length of the rod. The rod end just pops off. If you haven't already done so, pop off one end of the rod and turn the fitting on the end to shorten the length of the rod. If it is too long, it prevents the throttle cam from returning all the way back to the idle position.

Here is a photo of micklovin's clean 100HP motor with a red arrow pointing to the linkage that I'm referring to.



One other thing, not 100% sure on your motor, but on the later Force motors, the shaft that the throttle cam pivots on is made so the if you loosen the nut that holds it in place and turn the shaft itself, it will move the throttle cam towards, or away from the roller that it makes contact with on the carburetor. Kind of a fine adjustment.

 

[esimmons92]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

Esimmons92, just for clarification.....Your problem is that the idle speed is too high? Looks like you've tried most of the adjustments. There is one more. The adjustable shaft that goes between the tower shaft and the throttle cam. Both ends are threaded and you can adjust the length of the rod. The rod end just pops off. If you haven't already done so, pop off one end of the rod and turn the fitting on the end to shorten the length of the rod. If it is too long, it prevents the throttle cam from returning all the way back to the idle position.

Here is a photo of micklovin's clean 100HP motor with a red arrow pointing to the linkage that I'm referring to.

View attachment 223612

One other thing, not 100% sure on your motor, but on the later Force motors, the shaft that the throttle cam pivots on is made so the if you loosen the nut that holds it in place and turn the shaft itself, it will move the throttle cam towards, or away from the roller that it makes contact with on the carburetor. Kind of a fine adjustment.

Yes my idle speed is too high.
I did also adjust the rod between the tower shaft and the throttle cam as it was described in the tutorial. The mark was at a perfect tangent to the roller of the carbs.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

If everything is adjusted and working properly, high idle speed is can be caused by a mixture that is too lean. I would check and make sure that you don't have a vacuum leak somewhere.

Do you have a rubber hose that connects between the two carburetor mounting bases? If so, inspect it to make sure it's OK and no air leaks. Make sure all of the bolts that attach the carburetor mounting bases to the block are there and tightened down. These are the small 7/16 or 3/8 head bolts. You can try and find if you have a vacuum leak with the engine idling by spraying some carburetor cleaner around any of the areas where there are gaskets that seal off the intake and the by-pass ports. If you spray in an area, and the idle suddenly changes, take a close look in that area. Be careful, some carburetor cleaners are really good at removing paint. Also, make sure no over spray is getting sucked into the mouths of the carburetors and causing a sudden change in idle speed. Can be misleading.

 

[MickLovin]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

Yes my idle speed is too high.
I did also adjust the rod between the tower shaft and the throttle cam as it was described in the tutorial. The mark was at a perfect tangent to the roller of the carbs.

Hold on a second the throttle linkage adjustment is only to get your WOT with the shutters horizontal. The throttle link adjustment only needs to be done if the shutters aren't horizontal at WOT. If when you adjusted the throttle linkage, did you check to see where the shutters were positioned? The cam is done with one end of the throttle linkage taken off, the cam is them taken up to the roller and a piece of paper is put in between them to make sure the cam is central to roller, just because you have the cam centre of roller doesn't mean it will stay at that position when you re-attach the throttle linkage back. To be honest the cam normally sits a bit lower on the cam at a normal idle speed set -up. I had a mechanic come and set up my carbies before I had seen Frank's tutorial. All this bloke did was adjust the throttle linkage and carbies, After he had gone and I found the tutorial, I had found he had set the idle too high from adjusting the throttle linkage and had the carbies set too rich. Make sure your throttle linkage is right, it may be set too high which will make it idle high. Also you said you have no idle adjustment on the idle screw located under the tower. When you did your sync, did you have a tacho. How do you know what your rpm and if it is idling too high without a tacho?

 

[esimmons92]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

If everything is adjusted and working properly, high idle speed is can be caused by a mixture that is too lean. I would check and make sure that you don't have a vacuum leak somewhere.

Do you have a rubber hose that connects between the two carburetor mounting bases? If so, inspect it to make sure it's OK and no air leaks. Make sure all of the bolts that attach the carburetor mounting bases to the block are there and tightened down. These are the small 7/16 or 3/8 head bolts. You can try and find if you have a vacuum leak with the engine idling by spraying some carburetor cleaner around any of the areas where there are gaskets that seal off the intake and the by-pass ports. If you spray in an area, and the idle suddenly changes, take a close look in that area. Be careful, some carburetor cleaners are really good at removing paint. Also, make sure no over spray is getting sucked into the mouths of the carburetors and causing a sudden change in idle speed. Can be misleading.

I do not have a hose between the carb mounting bases. also I just replaced the gaskets between the cabs and mounting bases but all were in fine condition when I took them off as well as they were on very snug. Is there any where else I could have a vacuum leak from?

 

[esimmons92]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

Hold on a second the throttle linkage adjustment is only to get your WOT with the shutters horizontal. The throttle link adjustment only needs to be done if the shutters aren't horizontal at WOT. If when you adjusted the throttle linkage, did you check to see where the shutters were positioned? The cam is done with one end of the throttle linkage taken off, the cam is them taken up to the roller and a piece of paper is put in between them to make sure the cam is central to roller, just because you have the cam centre of roller doesn't mean it will stay at that position when you re-attach the throttle linkage back. To be honest the cam normally sits a bit lower on the cam at a normal idle speed set -up. I had a mechanic come and set up my carbies before I had seen Frank's tutorial. All this bloke did was adjust the throttle linkage and carbies, After he had gone and I found the tutorial, I had found he had set the idle too high from adjusting the throttle linkage and had the carbies set too rich. Make sure your throttle linkage is right, it may be set too high which will make it idle high. Also you said you have no idle adjustment on the idle screw located under the tower. When you did your sync, did you have a tacho. How do you know what your rpm and if it is idling too high without a tacho?

yes at WOT my shutters were horizontal. and in neutral my cam was aligned as its supposed to be and shutters closed.
I know it is idling too high because of the massive *CLUNK* I get when I go from neutral to gear. as soon as I get into gear the RPMs lower significantly. Also I have watched many videos of what these Chrysler motors are supposed to sound like when running and mine is significantly higher.

I plan to make a short video over the next week or 2 to show you all all of my settings and most importantly the problems.

Thanks for all the help and feedback!

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Recirculating system on 100HP Chrysler and puddle drain

I don't know if this applies to your motor, but according to this diagram, there should be a rubber hose that runs between the carburetor mounting bases. See item # 34 in the diagram below. If it is missing, that would be a source of a major vacuum leak. There should be a nipple on each carb. mounting base where the hose goes. Gaskets #35 and #37 should be checked. Make sure scews/bolts #44 are all tight. Check it out and lets us know.

Mercury, Mercruiser, Force, etc. - FUEL PUMP AND REED PLATE - 100 H.P.

NOTE: The brass nipples are press fit into the carb mounting base. Sometimes they will fall out, but the hole for the nipple should still be there.