Rebuild or Replace 454

[flargin]

Bummer of a summer...

Blew my 454 in my 1989 24' Arriva. broke the cam, punched a hole -- water and oil do actually mix in a very disturbing color

Need a little advise from those who know more than I. I expect to do the pull/install work myself (maybe documented for the forum?)

What do you think. Do you think it is better to:

1. Rebuild the motor (local Shop)
2. Core Charge swap (likely shipped in) -- any favorites.
3. New long block (maybe short if heads check out)
Reman vs New Chevy Marine

Money is an object, I don't want to spend more than is reasonable. Power is important, but reliability is more important, and I have found that ususally means keeping things simple.

 

[mkast]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

Engine needs to be disassembled to see the extent of the damage.
This decision can't be made until then

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

one thing you need to consider is if you broke or have a hole in the block,you dont have a core and are going to have to stand the core charge.
your cheapest out if you can find one is a used running engine.
as stated by mkast, till tear down you dont know what you have

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

A remaned long block would be the quickest and most trouble free rout to getting back on the water. IMO

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

4. Marinizing a salvage-yard block, FTW!

 

[KJSmitty]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

Well that does put a rain cloud over the lake....

"broke the cam, punched a hole"

This comment leads me to believe you have already performed an investigative / minimal tear-down...? If true and those are the facts, at this point a short block would be a must and depending on the shape of your heads, a long block next.

If the heads have never been worked and they aren't of any special variety: (I've built several rat motors LS6's/LS7's etc and some heads are highly sought after. Stock 89 heads however are probably common), then I would just go for a long block. Finding a used, running motor could prove both dependable and cost beneficial, but overall could be a tough find (or money pit).

A long block from a reputable shop/provider should get you a season warranty as well. Definitely some tough decisions and some time researching.

Best of luck.

 

[flargin]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

I have to dig in further to determine how bad the block is. I am going with the working assumption it is gone. Hoping to pull the block when the honey-do's are done. I agree with mkast, I don't think final decision is possible until I am further under the covers.

Are the block years pretty interchangeable? or must I find a reman '89 block? I even saw a new vortec long block, for not much more than some of the other reman blocks. (www.perfprotech.com) But these are a lot more than one of the $2000 Reman's, I don't know how to know if they are trustworthy.

KJ you hit it 'Definitely some tough decisions and some time researching' and I figure this is the best place to get some insight.

What is your opinion of the marine blocks vs 'Marinizing a salvage-yard block' or using a non marine block. I never really considered it, but what are the risks/issues?

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

The issues are that you have to install brass freeze plugs, and use non-metalic head gaskets...

You risk spending 80% less than you'd spend on a "marine" block...

 

[flargin]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

Uraijit wrote : 'You risk spending 80% less than you'd spend on a "marine" block...'

You know I don't normally take too many risks, but I like those odds...

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

http://www.perfprotech.com/store/pr...-and-ignition-components-392PARPAC,69247.aspx


this would solve your problems

 

[KJSmitty]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

Are the block years pretty interchangeable? or must I find a reman '89 block? I even saw a new vortec long block, for not much more than some of the other reman blocks. (www.perfprotech.com) But these are a lot more than one of the $2000 Reman's, I don't know how to know if they are trustworthy.

Flargin, You have what is most likely a Generation 2, Mark IV Big Block/454. These were produced up until 1990 yet I have read where many were still found in truck applications through 1996.

For your install, any 454 block between 1970 and 1990 will work. From 1990-1996 just ensure its a Gen 2/Mark IV variety etc. If its an EFI motor however, it probably isn't a gen 2. Next thing is is to ensure you're looking at either a 4 or 2 bolt main block. Boats, as most trucks require/will utilize 4 bolt mains due to the possible work environment etc.. Just make sure you get what you want/pay for.

Besides the cost/time issue, it sure sounds like fun building a new rat motor for your boat!

Cheers

 

[flargin]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

For your install, any 454 block between 1970 and 1990 will work. From 1990-1996 just ensure its a Gen 2/Mark IV variety etc. ...

Besides the cost/time issue, it sure sounds like fun building a new rat motor for your boat!

Cheers

Is the difference between pre-90 and post-90 due to the differences in the mount to the drive or the other bits and pieces(Exaust/Intake Manifolds, pumps, alternator, starters)

thus, if I was to get a newer block, I best get one with all the bits and pieces, or it just won't work, period. There are a number of motors available on craigslist, and wondered what would the limitations be...

Are there any magic decoder rings anywhere or is this just experience talking...

 

[KJSmitty]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

^^^Bubba is right, and I can't make any claims past that given a lack of experience with the new generation Big Blocks. I built/raced many of the LS5, LS6 and LS7s of your gen but never messed with the innards of a new gen. Adding to what Mr. B stated however, I can say that the new blocks are different enough that your old heads would not bolt on, nor would the new heads bolt on to your block etc..

I would be curious however as to whether the intake manifold would match across the generations. Beside the fact that the intake port design/size on the head would obviously have to match, I wonder if "other" changes took place as well etc.? In the big scheme of things that may be your only issue if you purchase a current model/generation BB.

Can't take you much further without performing the same research you will most likely be doing.

Best of luck

 

[flargin]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

The issues are that you have to install brass freeze plugs, and use non-metalic head gaskets...

Is this true for a "Fresh water only" boat? talking to my local GM parts, he indicated that here in CO they never have problems with their stock 454HO's



Also, i found out a couple of differences between my Gen 4 and the later 5/6:
1. 1 piece crank seal - means old oil pan will not work
2. Flywheels are different. it will fit but it is balanced differently and you will have a vibration problem.... I wonder how many people have rebuilt a new motor and ran into vibration problems...


I did not find out if the intake/exaust manifolds were different.

 

[Uraijit]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

Still holds true, though you can PROBABLY get away without it for quite a while. You're talking about $15 worth of plugs, why not just do it right the first time?

If you have a closed cooling system, then don't worry about it.

 

[KJSmitty]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

2. Flywheels are different. it will fit but it is balanced differently and you will have a vibration problem.... I wonder how many people have rebuilt a new motor and ran into vibration problems...

Good point, did not think of that.

- All 454's are externally balanced thus the new Gen must be a little different etc.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

You know,


All this stuff is pretty academic until you get the current engine disassembled and inspected.

Take your "broke" engine apart and see what you have. You're probably best to just take it to a machine shop and have them rebuild it for you.

Most of them will have a "long block" price that includes replacing most of the broke stuff unless you need a crank or block..


Regards,


Rick

 

[Windykid]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

If you broke the cam, and punched a hole in it, then I dont think it will be rebuilt. That said, what caused it and how much metal shavings are in the oil lines, push rods, and any other orifice that you wont be 100% sure you cleaned out?

Remaned long block is a wise choice. Anything else that is reused better be cleaned very well. If not look at replacing a new motor in no time at all.

 

[flargin]

Re: Rebuild or Replace 454

All this stuff is pretty academic until you get the current engine disassembled and inspected.
Rick

When I pull it out and tear it down, i will let you know what I found.

my hope was to have a strategy for when I had it pulled out, which for me is a learning curve. thanks though to all, I do have a better idea of what to do.