Rebuild an 3.0

[brummerh]

HI all,

tomorrow i will get the 3.0 out of my 1998 bayliner and will start a complete engine overhaul. Yes i have a book doing it, but i was wondering about any practice experience overhauling an engine. Any best practice guidelines out there, what to do best and where to just waist your time?

your help would be appreciated.

HB

 

[Bondo]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

Are you sending it out to a Machineshop,..??.....

How Much, or How Little are They going to Do,..??......

 

[mkpj1]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

Is it something you would like to do? How much extra time do you have? What tools do you have....stand, compressor.....etc.etc. What kind of work space do you have, is it clean.....

And.....Most important......can you afford to F up? i speak from experience and a first time amatuer is not going to save much doing it yourself. But....if you enjoy it and want to learn a new skill....then go for it. You still need a good machineshop to clean and prepare the block and head.

I would recommend that you ask around and get a good machineshop to do the low end work and head work. A good machinist can do this stuff in his sleep and it counts when you are back on the lake. The experts here on boat engines may be able to suggest some upgrades as far as valving and such if any at all?

 

[Don S]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

Why are you rebuilding it, and what all are you planning on doing in this overhaul.
From what I see on this forum, the word overhaul doesn't mean the samething to everyone.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

let the machine shop deal with the head,the block boring and finnish honeing, if you have a one piece rear main seal let the shop press a new seal in the holder. let the shop press the cam gear on and off the cam as applicable and let the shop replace the cam bearings.
dont break off the oil nipple on the front of the block .
the whole key is cleanliness before and during assy.
as long as the machine shop does there part right and you clean it properly its not difficult to reassemble.

have the shop test the rod big ends for distortion and rebuild them as nessasary.
follow the manual carefully and reassmbly is not difficult.

 

[DJ]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

I have to agree with the others. If this were a true "classic" that may be a different cause. A '98' is none of the above.

As mentioned. let the machines do all the boring, honing, measuring, etc. UNLESS, you already have all those tools.

 

[DJ]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

I have to agree with the others. If this were a true "classic" that may be a different cause. A '98' is none of the above.

As mentioned. let the machines do all the boring, honing, measuring, etc. UNLESS, you already have all those tools.

On the other hand, a true "garage job" can be done on that engine, easier/better than most.

The head is beyond most. Easily/checked and repaired.

The block will only be as good as the tools you have.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

look about, last summer I bought a complete NEW long block for 1900. came with a 1 yr warrenty. also came with flywheel and balancer and oil pan installed as well as a delco EST ign system.
last one I rebuilt the parts/machine work were about 1400 or so.
but I am with DonS, why is an overhaul nessasary ?

 

[mkpj1]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

Rod, DWJ, Don S,

When I rebuild motors, mostly small and big block fords, for a specific application there are always improvements that can be made. Examples would be valving, camming, and piston changes that can improve performance for a given application. Racing, towing etc...

Is there any for this 3.0L that will be better than getting a crate with who knows what internals have been put in it?

What I'm getting at is, there is an advantage to doing it yourself, in the auto engine, for reasons i mentioned above. Better parts for a specific application at about the same price as a crate. Or a lot cheaper than say...Jasper. Is this true in this scenario or is that what you mean by NOT "a true classic"

 

[180shabah]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

From what I see on this forum, the word overhaul doesn't mean the samething to everyone.

It's not just this forum, Don. "Overhaul" doesn't seem to have a concrete meaning anywhere. It is used for everything from degreasing and fresh gaskets, all the way to a comlete tear down with machining and replacement of unusable parts(remanufacturing).

Quick buyer tip, when you are shopping for a boat(or car) and you are told the engine has been overhauled, don't assume anything, get copies of work orders/ receipts before making an offer.

 

[DJ]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

There is not much, if anything, that can be done to a 3.0 to improve performance. It is what it is-stressed already.

 

[brummerh]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

HI all,

thanks so much for the feedback. I made a mistake, the engine is an 1989, sorry about that. I was told the engine was broken by the former owner due to been frozen in and cracked the block. So he took the head off etc. I can not find any cracks in the block, neither than the plugs are out.

So i decided that i will strip this block down, get every moving part either machined to the next size and get new bearings, seals into the engine.

In the car world there are kit’s with all the necessary parts for the job available. I have not made my research on this so much, but does anyone know about rebuild kit's for a 3.0?

Last but not least there will be also a rebuild of the carb. I know that there are kit's available for this as well.

I have not a complete machine shop and i would rely on some outside work. What i discovered is that by doing it myself and taking care and controlling the craftsmanship that is delivered to me, i usually achieve much better quality and results doing it this way.

This is not an attempt to save as much money as i can. This is an attempt to make things right the first time and enjoy the sound of a good working machine.

There are too many disappointments i can recall, when you look at your neighbors, friends car of boat, and they spend premium money on their stuff to get worked on , and all they get is cr…p, or very poor quality of work, or just fixed what is broken and not get it done right the first time.

I am sorry, but craftsmanship provide to the regular customer in general is very low, but especially in the US it is very low in most places.

Yes i know, but think about it. The good guy you know is outnumbered by hundreds of guys who will perform a repair on your engine and have no clue what they are doing.

Thanks

HB

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

where in NC are you and how much saltwater has the block seen ?

 

[bobboater1]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

i would check out that block..like robold said . crate engine i got a complete 5,7 total rebuit long block with out any bolt on's for less then 1600.00 delvered
bob

 

[ron7000]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

I agree with you about quality and doing the work yourself, but do you feel that way about a factory new motor? If not, have you checked out Basic Power yet they are in your neck of the woods? http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/engines/base/181.htm
I've known people have had their motors rebuilt, and I know mechanics who do that work. A lot depends on what level of (quote) "rebuild" you want to go to. There's a lot to it, more than most people think if you want to really check everything and do it right. When you consider your time and the cost of doing everything, sourcing parts, finding a place that can do the work you cannot, shipping costs these days, and then how much machine shop work you want done on the block and that has risks, the price of a new base engine with warranty is very hard to beat. On top of that you'd be rebuilding a 15 yr old motor. A new 3.0L would net you more power unless you have plans for your old motor. If I were you I'd be researching how to get a 2006 base engine to fit where a 1989 motor did and what else is needed.

You had asked what to do best and what's a waist of time: off the top of my head since you're rebuilding a marine motor which is continuous duty, anything less than turning an inspected crank, align boring the crank journals and cylinders, with new pistons & rings would be a waist of time if your concern is reliability and durability. I've seen enough rebuilds consisting of just main bearings and piston rings last 500 hrs or less and the thing starts knocking and burning oil in addition to producing less power than it should.

 

[brummerh]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

HI all,

Thanks for all the suggestions above.

And here is the truth. I pulled the motor on Friday, pulled the head and there it was ( the reason the boat had no performance as mentioned by former owner ) there was a small crack in between the two cylinders in the middle of the block. There is nothing for me to do here.

I am looking for a new/used engine at this point, and found one at e bay already. The problem is when I remember all the conversations correctly that there is a difference with the one piece seal main and the two piece seal on the back. Also I believe the flywheel has a different diameter.

I am nearly 99%sure that i saw somewhere a kit, which will allow you to fit a newer 3.0 181 Chevy engine on an older outdrive ( as in my case a 1989 to an 1993 ). I will need to look and find it, because the used price is more than attractive.

Thanks

HB

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

look about a bit, last long block I bought was about 1900 delivered with the correct flywheel and coupler.
add your intake,or better yet buy it new as well and your back in action.
this was for a new long block with an EST distributor,balancer to flywheel and oil pan to rocker cover. all I had to do was swap accessories.
the coplete package was about 2900 from bell housing to front mount and all accesories.
I know where a junk long block is, dunno much about it other than #4 piston exploded due to hitting a stuck exhaust valve and its laying out back cause so far its to heavy to toss in the dumpster.
its a 95 3.0 merc unit.

 

[bobboater1]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

rodbolt i didnot get as good as deal as you i got a long block 350 rebuilt for 1550 delv..valve covers and oil pan on the side as mine are rusty.. but its a fair price..now i can spend more inportant time not fixing the engine itself
bob

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

anymore by the time I bore all the holes,grind the crank,install new cam bearings,thoughoughly clean the block and do a valve job on the heads then purchase new parts for assy its actually cheaper for my customers to buy a long block or a bobtail.
in my area it gets expensive fast at the machine shop.
once the machine shop is done your still looking at 8 hours or so to clean and assemble a long block.
its just to easy anymore to uncrate the long block and start bolting on accessories that got cleaned and painted while waiting on the truck.

 

[bobboater1]

Re: Rebuild an 3.0

rodbolt i was faced witha witer project..motor sitting 10 yrs org owner. frozen for sure rusty..my buddys wanted me to do a rebuid over the witer(in pa) my friend used to work at recon engine rebuilders..with a discount. it would have cost at least say $700 plus all our time. vrs $1550 for just the long block done with watt..i save him a headache, me lots of time as its getting cold here to make watt. good for 2 yrs i will get local engine shop to put in in. this is required to get the 2 yr with 4k worth of labor replacement..meaning i will not have to pay or do knothing if i lost a piston or head gasket..but like you said these crates are to easy.i am getting older so it came with 1 yr so i got complete 2 yr for a few bucks more. i am not old 44. but been working on cars since 9 yrs old and have stopped almost the last few yrs. i will do all the fun stuff. seats.buffing. electrical . as i can . its a sharp speed boat a 89 carlson 19 ft css..i have all winter to get it right..CRATES ARE THE WAY TO GO. unless you cant..like don s post do it right the first time so you dont have to do it again
bob