re-timing reverse rotation 454

[snowdan]

I have tried doing ignition timing to no avail and now I would like to pull off the timing cover and make sure everything is timed properly in the engine. I was wondering if any one has done this and what would be the best way to go about it once I get in there?

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

if you never were in there than the gears could not have changed position. How are you trying to time the motor?
#1 is still number #1 , crank turns CCW, dist turns CW ,cap should be marked with both firing orders.

 

[snowdan]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

I got the engine to tdc on compression stroke for #1 cylinder and then ran the wires jUst like the picture for opposite rotation. When the engine turns over it does not sound like it is even clOse to firing. There is an occassional poof from the carb with some smoke and some unburned fuel also only the plugs in cylinders 1, 3, 2, 4 are wet with fuel when pulled out? I have rebuilt the carb which is a holley 4150 with no choke or vacuum advance, replaced the starter, cleaned and reset the points on dist, checked coil, and compression test all cylinders. The comp test read 140-150 for all cylinders. I am not sure if it has gears or a timing chain it just seems that t is off severely on the timing and thought that maybe the chain slipped some how or something? Have I missed any steps? It has compression, spark, carburation and I believe I have timed the ignition properly what else could I check? Also the boat sat for 7 years before I recieved it.

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

Are you getting good spark? You mention the boat sat for 7-years before you received it.... It should get new points, condenser, cap, rotor, plugs, wires before you try and start it.

Do you know if it was running when it was parked?

Read this thread:
http://forums.iboats.com/mercruiser...ne-up-your-engine-points-ignition-335302.html

Oh yeah.... Welcome Aboard!!

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

to be sure, the crank pully is moving counterclockwise ? is the starter block or bellhousing mounted?
you said just like the picture. You verified #1 position at the cap before installing the plug wires?

 

[snowdan]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

Thanks for the info and the welcome.
The story is this boat was my boss's he would not sell me the boat but made me a deal that i could take the boat clean it up and get it back in order and then use it at my leisure. He said it had run when it was parked just a little hard to start. He is fitting the bill for parts and I am putting the sweat in I thought it was a good deal because he had not used it 7 years and I dont see him using it very much now. The spark was good enough I thought to start the engine and the coil was tested at a local auto parts shop and they said it was fine. I was hoping to get it running and make sure nothing else major was wrong with the motor before changing the ignition to electronic.

I am not sure what you mean by the starter block or bell housing being mounted? And with the ignintion timing we established the #1 wire position accordingly to the rotor position and then installed the cap and ran the wires according to the #1 plug wire is this correct? The distributor was not pointing exactly at the #1 cylinder but pretty close and the cap can only go on one way I was pretty confident we did this correctly and did it a few times as we tried to start it before cleaning the points and then re timed after filing the points and putting that back together. Thanks for all the info and help it is much appreciated.

 

[Don S]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

One thing that is really needed is to know what the engine manufacturer was. Mercruiser, OMC, Volvo, PMC;, etc. Not all have the same #1 position on the distributor.
Also need to know the year and any model or serial numbers of the engine. Even year would help a little.
2nd problem, are you sure the engine was on #1 TDC on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke?

 

[snowdan]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

I am sure it was on the compression stroke ran through a few cycles with finger over the spark plug hole and could tell the difference. I wish I new the manufacturer as well. I looked up the block it was made in toledo for 70s passenger car. on the exhaust manifolds it says indmar, on the valve covers it says panther by maritec, the tranny is velvet drive I have looked all over the engine for something other than a casting number and to no luck. I am heading back down to where I am storing the boat a week from now I stored it in an area a couple hours away that gets less snow than the mountains I live in. So I am trying to get my ducks in a row to give this the best effort possible. Any ideas where I could locate the manufacturer or some identifying marks on the engine?

 

[snowdan]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

ALso the distributor is a mallory with dual points.

 

[Don S]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

ALso the distributor is a mallory with dual points.

You have an automotive distributor if it's dual points, and that is an explosion hazard.
Get the correct distributor, install it at #1 TDC on the Compression stroke, look at where the rotor points. That is #1 spark plug. Then just put the wires in the correct firing order in the correct direction (CW) on the distributor cap.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

back up a few steps, you said replaced starter,not rebuit it.If you put the wrong starter it it will never start.
What direction is the crank pully turning?

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

this is for an aft mount starter,you need a starter that is opposite the engine.
eg: use a reverse rotation starter for a standard motor and a standard starter for a reverse rotation motor.
If the starter is engine mounted then the starter must match the engine rotation standard-standard/ reverse - reverse
http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R142015A

 

[snowdan]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

Yes realizing that not only is the distributor auto so is the carb. Got a new carb coming but still want to get the thing to fire on the trailer to make sure it will before buying a new distributor. The pulley when looking at it rotates ccw. ALso the distributor spins ccw? The starter is at the rear of the motor and is a cw rotating starter. Since the distributor spins ccw I have the firing order following that rotation. This motor has literally kept me up at night with what is going on. When we did try to start it smoke out the carb (Backfire) and seems like sucking through the exhaust? THe boat supposedly ran when put away? When I tried to start it the last time heavy fuel leakage out of the throttle shafts hence me ordering a new marine carb and lots of white smoke out of the backfire protector. I pulled the plugs from all cylinders and 1,3,2,4 were dry, the others wet and black. This was the opposite from last summer when I tried boat is tipped slightly past level on trailer to keep water out. COuld the vacuum leak in the throttle shaft be responsible for the weird flow? It has spark and compression. Please help or give me a starting point.

 

[Don S]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

You have the wrong starter,

The engine should turn CW when you are looking at the front crankshaf pulley, and the distributor should also turn CW, even if it was a reverse rotation engine.
Engine rotation in engines is determined by the direction the flywheel turns.

 

[ICE COP]

Re: re-timing reverse rotation 454

You have the wrong starter,

The engine should turn CW when you are looking at the front crankshaf pulley, and the distributor should also turn CW, even if it was a reverse rotation engine.
Engine rotation in engines is determined by the direction the flywheel turns.

View attachment 195028

If we are talking about an opposite rotation engine it is clock wise as viewed from the flywheel end and counter clockwise when viewed from the front or harmonic balancer(timing mark) end. The distributor will ALWAYS turn clockwise when viewed from the top looking down on it as it spins.
An automotive engine(standard rotation) turns counter clockwise when viewed from the flywheel end but the distributor still turns clockwise.

check out the following link, it will give easy drawings to understand as well as showing what starter rotation is required depending on it's mounting location.
I would not start that engine again unless you know exactly what you have and determine that rotation and wires are properly set. I have seen engines wired wrong that backfired so violently they blew out mufflers. I'd also suggest a good manual for 454 marine engines. Your boss is footing the bill so the manual will save both of you time and money.
Good luck