question

[ebkolove]

What happens when water gets in the tank?

 

[wilde1j]

Re: question

Bad things ... like the motor won't run or runs poorly.

 

[jtexas]

Re: question

depends.
How much water, how much gasoline, what's the ethanol content of the gasoline, and is it premix.

E10 (10% ethanol gasoline) will dissolve about 3 1/2 teaspoons of water per gallon of gas, so 4 oz. of water in a full 6-gallon tank will just run right through the engine and burn with the gas without you noticing.

E0 (normal gas without ethanol) will only dissolve about 1/5 of one teaspoon of water per gallon.

If it's more water than the gas can dissolve, the water forms a layer under the gasoline.

If the pump sucks water into the motor, the water won't burn, so the motor quits running. If it's only a little bit of water along with some gas, it just misfires like crazy.

Except -- if it's ethanol-blended fuel, the water will have ethanol in it, and ethanol does burn, so the motor will continue to run (but it'll be running like crap), only if it's premix, all the oil will be in the top gasoline layer, so if the motor doesn't stop soon it'll burn up.

If the water doesn't get pulled into the motor, no problem.

Unless it's ethanol-blended gasoline, in which case the octane rating of the gasoline without its ethanol will be lowered by 1 or 2 points. In which case preignition or even detonation is a real possibility, which can result in catastrophic piston damage.

 

[ebkolove]

Re: question

here's the deal, I have a 1975 rude 135 4 cyl crossflow. I have taken her out on several occasions after purchasing the boat a few weeks ago. One every occasion except the last, it ran perfectly. Just recently, I have had some trouble getting the motor to start and stay lit. I went to the parts counter today and grabbed some carb rbuild kits, and the old timey Texan behind the desk says, "well, you could take these home and be out 60 bux, but I bet after this rain you may just have water in the tank. Pump the bulb a few times and look at wha comes out"
So I bought the rebuild kits anyways, but his rain theory is intrigueing

 

[jtexas]

Re: question

...take advantage of that resource while it lasts...the parts house closest to me, same location 50 years or more, shut down recently when the old guy passed....

[tip....two other possible causes of your symptoms, compression & spark, both quick & easy to rule out...]

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: question

This appears to be going the same way as the other thread that you started about this motor.
Several people chimed in with suggestions and questions in an effort to help you out...(There it was also suggested that compression and spark were the first things to check.)....you ignored these requests for info...when I asked you to answer some of our questions...to help us to help you... you had a hissy fit, and did the forum equivalent of stomping out in a huff...."Unfortunately for me, your curt remarks have left a sour taste in my mouth and I will seek the guidance I need elsewhere."

Everyone in here is more than happy to help you out (I have never experienced such a collective willingness to help out strangers) , but if you appear immune to any good advice that is offered, that urge to assist wanes quickly....

That "old- timey Texan" was just trying to save you $60-. It could well be that you just have a whack of water in the tank which would certainly cause the problems that you are having.

I could offer some advice but it would just be " I bet after this rain you may just have water in the tank. Pump the bulb a few times and look at what comes out"

But I don't want to risk offending you again....so I won't

But if you decide to follow his advice, you should just get a nail, or similar, to depress the ball in the quick connect, pumpthe bulb (you may need 3 hands ) and collect about 2-3" of gas in a clean glass jar....one that is narrow and tall is best.
Let it settle and see how much "gunk" settles out at the bottom.

If it seems clear/clean, siphon some fuel right from the bottom....tilt the tank and draw from the very lowest point. Again, see what settles out.

That will prove the fuel quality or lack thereof.

If I WERE to offer any advice at this point, it would probably be that you should do this first....then if you find that you do have a load of junk in the fuel, you can drain the bad fuel, replace with fresh, and see if the parts place will take back the carb kits....

 

[ebkolove]

Re: question

Thanks for the good advice, you're absolutely right about the hissy fit, my apologies. As for spark, compression, and fuel, fuel and spark are good, checking compression tonight. Thanks for telling me how to check the fuel, I was going to ask, but you anwered before I could.

again, apologies for the tantrum last time, I appreciate you posting again.

The guys at the marine shop I go to are great and will let me return the parts if it's just bad fuel, but I was thinking that it might be a good idea to just rebuild the carbs anyway...thoughts?

 

[Jerry_NJ]

Re: question

You say: "The guys at the marine shop I go to are great and will let me return the parts..." and I say: be nice to them, this is not the norm. It would be great to trouble shoot with free parts.. i.e., return if you don't need them further than to show they were not needed.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: question

I would diagnose and fix what's wrong (if you don't disturb poo, it doesn't stink).

 

[Tim Frank]

Re: question

Thanks for the good advice, you're absolutely right about the hissy fit, my apologies. As for spark, compression, and fuel, fuel and spark are good, checking compression tonight. Thanks for telling me how to check the fuel, I was going to ask, but you anwered before I could.

again, apologies for the tantrum last time, I appreciate you posting again.

The guys at the marine shop I go to are great and will let me return the parts if it's just bad fuel, but I was thinking that it might be a good idea to just rebuild the carbs anyway...thoughts?

Many of us have thick skins....no harm, no foul...

There really is no way around the compression tester, although you got some ideas of cheap ones, and even a possible source for a loaner.
On a similar note, the "old lean the plug against the block" is not really a good test either. You should use purpose built spark tester as a better check. the good news is they are less than $10- for a perfectly good one, or search this site for a sketch of how to build one at home yourself.

On the carb rebuild, that's a tough one. I did the 3 carbs on a 68 Johnson 55 hp after 25 years ....just because... and it was a complete waste of time and parts.... They were absolutely spotless.
Every O/B I have owned has been the same story. I don't know if it is the relatively short season in Canada, colder climate so we don't get as much varnishing etc.....or just luck. I do not put a ton of time on any of my o/b and that should, I thought make carb problems more of an issue.

Florida and other Southern members seem to encounter more problems with fuel related carb fouling. So it may be partly geographic....or not....

Water in tanks is a big problem though and often not noticed. My BIL had more than a quart of water in a 5 gallon tank and we found it when we were troubleshooting the same symptoms as you are describing. I thought someone had dumped it in there on purpose. But I checked one of my tanks and found almost that much; nobody had access to that tank, and the motor was running fine....obviously the water had not reached the level of the pickup yet. So I am not sure if it is condensation, or rain ingress.
I now drain all my tanks completely every year and leave them empty for the winter after dumping in some O/B oil and swishing it around well to coat the innards.

I guess my suggestion would be wait and see what the fuel is like....if it is fine, you are probably going to have to have a look in the carbs to see what is going on, but I wouldn't do it "just for fun".

My 2 cents.

 

[jtexas]

Re: question

... but I was thinking that it might be a good idea to just rebuild the carbs anyway...thoughts?

I have found that
A. she always runs better with fresh carbs, and
B. there's way worse ways to spend a saturday afternoon.

That said, I typically won't do it unless they are the next most likely suspect in an unresolved performance issue.

Or, with a newly acquired used motor when I'm not too confident in the previous owner's maintenance routine.

 

[ebkolove]

Re: question

Thanks all very much. I'm going to dig into her tonight to see what I can find

 

[ebkolove]

Re: question

It...it...it was...a stick in the stupid screen filter. I thought that I may want to check it, you know...just in case. The thing was full of debris. A squirt of carb cleaner to blow out the baddies, and what do you know motor running STRONG. Looked a the gas tank, no water, it was basically empty so I cleaned it out and put some fresh clean gas in. checked out the carbs...lookin good. No I did not check the compression at this point, if I start to have more problems, that will be the very first thing that I do. I will not that it shifts a lot smoother sice I raised up the litttle attacher thingy on the tip of the shift rod. I think I just let it out one more turn. Thank you all for your tips, and I will most certainly be seekin ghte help I need RIGHT HERE from now on

Steven