Question about adding 2nd axle updated info and pic

[1216bandit]

I have a 22' starcraft islander sitting on a single axle trailmaster trailer. After hitting some debris and having a blow out I am thinking I would like to ad a second axle. I have read where most suggest moving the existing axle forward, and adding the second axle in front. I dont unjderstand why the rear axle would have to be moved at all?

 

[smokeonthewater]

you have to move the axle so that your tongue weight stays correct... assuming that it is correct now your current axle is where the center point between two axles needs to be..


If you move the current axle forward you would put the new axle behind it....

Assuming a leaf spring setup, it's not quite that simple tho as you would need an equalizer system and front n rear parts need to be the same. .... Also having tandem axles will give you no advantage whatsoever if you hit debris again... you would quite possibly be dealing with 2 blowouts instead of one and even if you only blew one tire you would be just as disabled as with a single axle.

 

[1216bandit]

Before I post the updated information I just want to ask Kevin why I would be just as disabled with one flat on a doulble axle? Would I not be able to limp along at reduced speed on the remaining good tire? If I were to pick up a nail or something with a tandem set up, would the tire that went flat not be as likely to be ripped to shreds as it is not riding on the rim as it would on a single axle?

The tire pretty much ripped apart and I had to leave the boat to get a sledge hammer to beat the fender and rear step pad (damaged by the shredded tire) back to get the wheel off. I picked up a new tire and rim and came back home as most of the day was shot running around trying to find said tire and rim.

This afternoon I brought the boat to the scales and man was I ever in for a surprise!!! The boat was bought 3 yrs ago and my understanding the trailer was made for the boat, boat is a '93 and trailer '94, so it never crossed my mind to weigh it. I pulled the truck up far enough that only the trailer axle was on the scale and the weight was 4200 lbs. I did some reading and measuring and it appears the my 2 1/2 axle is rated for 3500lbs, YIKES! The tires are 214/75/14 carlisle trailer tires with a combined weight rating of 3780 lbs....another big yikes!! The tires were in perfect condition and the trailer never leaves the yard without checking pressures.

So the bottom line is I dont have enough axle, tire and probably suspension. As I am a broke *** painter I need to deal with this in a cost effective manner. A new trailer is out of the question due to price and I would rather modify or adapt what I have now than look at something used.

So as I see it I have 2 options:
1. Add a second 3500 lb axle along with 2 new rims and tires in the same size that I have now, along with new fenders. This would give me 7000lbs of axle capacity along with 7500 lbs of tire carrying capacity

2. Go with a higher capacity single axle along with 15" wheels and tires rated to handle the weight.

I really am open to all suggestions and options. I did some measuring today the trailer is just under 24' and the center of the single axle is 61" from the rear of the trailer if that helps in determining if that axle has to be moved. I have not measured the tongue weight but it is heavy...much heavier than I can lift

 

[Bondo]

So as I see it I have 2 options:

Ayuh,..... Go with option #3,...... Sell that wagon, 'n buy 1 rated for yer boat,.....

What suspension is there now,..??
Bolted to the frame, or welded,..??

Just 'cause ya add axles, 'n tires, it don't increase the capacity of the Rest of the wagon either,....

 

[1216bandit]

The suspension is leaf spring and welded. In talking with the manufacterer that same size channel framed trailer was available as a higher capacity based on axles and rubber. It is a good solid unit...welded coupler...rust free.

Most of the used stuff I looked at is worth its weight in scrap, rusted up hulks, dry rotted tires etc. I went and looked at one off clist. Picture showed a nice blue unit, nice wheels, looked real good and the price was right, along with the description marked as excellent. So I convert some Canadian funds to U.S. (I just live across the creek from Detroit) go to check out this trailer and the bloody thing he shows me is a white (more rust than paint) unit that is trashed. All 4 tires dry rotted big time, bearing buddy caps missing, wiring shot and brakes dont work. Crazy nut wanted $1150 for it which was probably a decent price for what I saw in the add. I really felt like pokin him in the nose, but I did not want to disrupt the otherwise great relations between our 2 great countries!

 

[Bondo]

The suspension is leaf spring and welded. In talking with the manufacterer that same size channel framed trailer was available as a higher capacity based on axles and rubber.

Ayuh,.... Are you gonna weld the new axle in,..??

As noted, the center of gravity is quite crucial,....
Lookin' at it, I'd think ya gotta move that axle forward, 'n add the 2nd behind it to get it near Right,...

If yer payin' a Welder, the cost will easily exceed, sellin' that wagon, 'n findin' a bigger wagon,....

 

[bruceb58]

That boat looks like it is hanging off the back of that trailer. Out of curiosity, what is your tongue weight?

I would be buying another trailer.

EDIT: I noticed you said you didn't know your tongue weight. It needs to be around 400lbs so it is no wonder you can't lift it. Even if it was on the low side, you wouldn't be able to lift it.

 

[smokeonthewater]

The REASON you would still be dead in the water is because you WOULDN'T be limping along on the good tire, you would be limping along on 3 good tires AND the flat one.... the suspension on the tandem trailer equalizes... you would have the same weight on the flat tire on the rim as on the good tire next to it....

picture doesn't change anything.... if you add an axle behind the current one your tongue weight will be through the roof... maybe 1000 lbs and if you add an axle in front then your tongue weight would be close to or below zero....

There IS another option... 1 5200 lb axle along with 2 2600 lb springs and 2 2600 lb tires and 2 new 6 lug rims... Very possible new fenders as well...


As Bondo said the best option is find another trailer.... You said most used trailers are worth their weight in scrap.... That's not a deal breaker for you since you only need one good trailer and though you may have to pay a premium for a good used trailer you ALSO need to remember that you can get a premium price for YOUR good used trailer.

 

[1216bandit]

Gotcha Kevin...I thought if you had a flat on a tandem the remaining good tire would keep the flat from running on the rim.

 

[1216bandit]

That boat looks like it is hanging off the back of that trailer.

The picture makes it look that way

 

[bruceb58]

That's a very nice cover by the way!

 

[BF]

Not any mention of brakes... does your current trailer have 'em? That's likely another reason to just find another one. Check where you are (ON?)... here in MB trailers >2000 lbs legally need brakes. BTW, I've imported a trailer and gone through the RIV thing... not bad to do, but do your homework. If VIN isn't legible, don't bother trying. (so get the seller to email you a pict of the VIN plate before you bother driving down) Also if tires on trailer don't match the size listed on VIN plate, it will fail the RIV inspection....With a trailer you are exempt from most things you'd have to do with US customs if it were a self propelled vehicle. It was a bit of a PITA to get temporary insurance from MB on the trailer I had just bought in MN... involved faxing back and forth. But at least I was legal insurance-wise when towing (but nobody asked anyway).

 

[Brian 26]

Most of the used stuff I looked at is worth its weight in scrap, rusted up hulks, dry rotted tires etc.

That is my experience as well. Good used trailers are hard to find, most guys around here just buy new ones for their used boats.

....along with the description marked as excellent.....

Don't get me started on people mis using the term "Excellent" on Craigslist.

 

[JaCrispy]

I have pretty much the same situation. I think my trailer is a little more heavy duty than yours, but my boat is too big (weight wise) for it. I was going to add another axle, which I still may. But another idea I was looking into was picking up a junker boat/trailer off Craigslist. I've seen a few dual axle trailers with boat for $200+. Scrap the boat and keep the trailer. It's alot of work and effort, but cheaper than $1200 for a used trailer.

 

[bruceb58]

Not any mention of brakes... does your current trailer have 'em?

In the picture you can see the surge brake coupler.

 

[blue924.9]

The REASON you would still be dead in the water is because you WOULDN'T be limping along on the good tire, you would be limping along on 3 good tires AND the flat one.... the suspension on the tandem trailer equalizes... you would have the same weight on the flat tire on the rim as on the good tire next to it....

picture doesn't change anything.... if you add an axle behind the current one your tongue weight will be through the roof... maybe 1000 lbs and if you add an axle in front then your tongue weight would be close to or below zero....

There IS another option... 1 5200 lb axle along with 2 2600 lb springs and 2 2600 lb tires and 2 new 6 lug rims... Very possible new fenders as well...


As Bondo said the best option is find another trailer.... You said most used trailers are worth their weight in scrap.... That's not a deal breaker for you since you only need one good trailer and though you may have to pay a premium for a good used trailer you ALSO need to remember that you can get a premium price for YOUR good used trailer.

it equalizes until the dog bone runs out of movement, on all the trailers i have that are tandem, only 1 has small enough tires to run on the rim before the dog bone runs out of adjustment, all the others the dog bone bottoms out leaving the rim about 2 inches off the ground. so just saying its not guaranteed but is possible to run on 3 good tires with 1 flat

 

[bruceb58]

On one of my trailers, you can have a tire that is completely shredded run with the rim still on...it's happened. On my other trailer, even if you take the rim off, the brake disc is almost touching the ground. Lost a wheel so that's how I know on that one.

 

[dozerII]

I had the same situation with my Starcraft SS 201, very marginal on the single axle trailer it came with from the factory. I converted it to a tandem in about 3 days.



Cut off all the old spring mounts fenders and steps.



New mounts in position.



Springs, axles mounted working on fenders.



Finished trailer

 

[1216bandit]

Great information BF on bringing in a trailer from the states...the one with my islander had a U.S. tiitle with the VIN on the registration and I did not have to go through the RIV (registrar of imported vehicles) because of the age. What a money grab that is!!

VERY nice job on your trailer dozerll! Bit hard to tell from the pics but it looks like you had to move the original axle back some???

Thanx all for your input...I have learned a lot!

 

[dozerII]

The center y that hangs both spring is very close to the center of the single axle.