PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

[Justinde]

Ahoy Mateys

I uncovered the beast today ( by the way, it's 27degrees CELCIUS today, and, oh, NO WIND) so I am frustrated!!!


**Background**

The battery ran dry as the tilt/trim was in the up position, ALL NIGHT.

**Update**

Charged Battery, started after a couple of goes, but the PTT sounds like the battery is DEAD- buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz- you get the picture.

I took the top off the PTT to expose the motor, and it spins freely. I put more fluid in- by the way, the manual calls for 30w engine oil, which I topped up with- but it has red pneumatic oil in it. What do I use?? I read that Pneumatic ATF/PSS fluid are a no no??

Tapped on the rams to see if they were stuck. Backed off a line, and the engine lowered, so rams are OK. Enginbe holds in up position- valve OK.

I replaced the relays, and put the motor back on the PTT, and now I dont even get a buzzzzzz, just a relay gouing nuts. Relay buzzes and buzzes.

Put old relays back, boat wont even start now. I went backwards at 10000MPH.

I am thinking that I have an electrical problem ( der), but the initial PTT being stuck in the up position- would this cause the PTT engine ( electrical motor) to seize?

Secondary is the relays. I bought new ones, connected them ( same numbers on pins) and got a GREAT spark when I reconnected the negative to the battery. Now the entire engine is dead.

By the way, I don't seem to have ANY fuses other than circuit breakers, in the boat.

Over to you.

By the way.......

HHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPP

I have another few months of this weather!!

 

[foodfisher]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

Batteries don't run dry because the motors tilted up. Whatever caused it might have killed the batt. Don't mix t/t fluids. Use what's already in there. Relays going nuts could be a symptom of the dead/used up battery. You sound a little attled going backward 10000 MPH. Start w/load testing the batt. Take a few deep breaths and get back.

 

[Justinde]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

Batteries don't run dry because the motors tilted up. Whatever caused it might have killed the batt. Don't mix t/t fluids. Use what's already in there. Relays going nuts could be a symptom of the dead/used up battery. You sound a little attled going backward 10000 MPH. Start w/load testing the batt. Take a few deep breaths and get back.

I should re-phrase. The PTT was stuck on all night as the boat was left uncovered in the rain. When I left it, the motor was down, the next morning, battery dead, and motor tilted fully upright. I assumed that water must have entered the control and caused the PTT to be stcuk on in tilt up position, causing the flat battery by staying on- does this make sense? Or better sense??

 

[foodfisher]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

Yep! Water and electrics do not mix. Electrics being my weakest llink. I humbly bow out.Edit: You might try pleading to the electric/electronic forum, Those guys just dazzle me with their know how.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

I should re-phrase. The PTT was stuck on all night as the boat was left uncovered in the rain. When I left it, the motor was down, the next morning, battery dead, and motor tilted fully upright. I assumed that water must have entered the control and caused the PTT to be stcuk on in tilt up position, causing the flat battery by staying on- does this make sense? Or better sense??

Count to ten, take a deep breath....I hear your frustration!

I doubt that water in the control would have caused the PTT to tilt the motor up and run all night. More likely a short but you never know. What kind of PTT motor do you have? 2 wire or 3 wire? What year and motor is this?

 

[Justinde]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

Hey pnwboat

Its a 1988/125 with a 2 wire PTT. I see them on ebay for around $165.00, but, when I took it apart today, the bushes look good, the motor ( shaft) spins freely by hand.

It went from a buzz ( the kind you hear when the battery is dead) to nothing when I replaced the relays. When I replaced the relays, the motor then would not start. BY the way, when I replaced the relays, the guy asked me ( in the auto shop) if I wanted resistor or non resistor ( diode?) relays. HE sold me diode relays. When I hooked it up, I had a sizeable spark from the negative battery terminal.



The forward control for the PTT is a little sticky- has been since I got it. I just assumed that water entered the switch in the forward control & left it on.

Ideas?

 

[Justinde]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

Also, just searching the forums, I noticed that the middle pin should be 87a. One of my new relays was 87 ( no 'a'). Would this have caused the zapp??

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

Big spark sounds like something wrong there.
Did it blow the circut breaker?
30wt is recomended.I'd eventually drain it and replace.
First try unhooking the lead from the T/T motor and apply power direct from the battery.
Green lead to hot and blue to ground.Then reverse it.
If there is no movement then the motor is shot.
If you want you can bypass the diodes.Get a heavy duty switch.3 position switch.
The switch in the handle can be cleaned with contact cleaner or WD-40
Make sure the battery is hot.The relays might be the wrong ones

 

[pnwboat]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

Is the Tilt/Trim switch mounted directly in the throttle handle/control box, or is it a separate switch on the dash? Jerry has some good suggestions regarding testing the Trim/Tilt motor itself.

You shouldn't get much spark if any at all when connecting the battery cables. The starter solenoid has one small terminal with three red wires. One of these red wires feeds 12v to the tilt/trim relays. You can tell by following it to the T/T relay. You may find a circuit breaker in line with this wire. If there is one, make sure it's not tripped. There is also a circuit breaker on the screw terminal block by the starter. Make sure it's not tripped either.

It may be that your T/T switch is bad and the contacts inside have fused together in the "UP" position, so no matter what position the lever is in, it's always trying to run the T/T motor in the UP position. You can verify with a meter. Also I think I would go back to the original relays.

 

[Justinde]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

I'll check this afternoon after work as per Jerry.

pnw- the tilt/trim is mounted on the forward control/throttle handle.

With the circuit breakers- when they are 'tripped' are they out or in?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

They are usually out when they're tripped, but it may be hard to tell. If they're tripped, when you push the button in you can sometimes feel it, or hear it "click".

 

[RRitt]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

Hey pnwboat

Its a 1988/125 with a 2 wire PTT. I see them on ebay for around $165.00, but, when I took it apart today, the bushes look good, the motor ( shaft) spins freely by hand.

It went from a buzz ( the kind you hear when the battery is dead) to nothing when I replaced the relays. When I replaced the relays, the motor then would not start. BY the way, when I replaced the relays, the guy asked me ( in the auto shop) if I wanted resistor or non resistor ( diode?) relays. HE sold me diode relays. When I hooked it up, I had a sizeable spark from the negative battery terminal.



The forward control for the PTT is a little sticky- has been since I got it. I just assumed that water entered the switch in the forward control & left it on.

Ideas?

the trim motors never wear out. they just get rusty and die. don't reassemble you motor without getting new square cut orings and aluminum sealing washers. you will ruin the motor if you put it back together with old seals. moisture (even a small amount) will get inside, it will rust, and it will die. when reassembling your motor it needs to be off the boat. put the top cover in a vice - upside down. pull back the brushes and drop armature into place. hold down end of armature with thumb and lower magnet into place. move hand to base of armature and lower oil reservoir into place. squeeze together while turning over. install new through bolts with new sealing washers. If bolts do not have any rust then old bolts with new washers. DO NO RE-USE SEALING GASKETS OR WASHERS!!

as regards your original problem. you had a wiring short. in the switch or the wiring leading up to the switch. you probably tripped the circuit breaker and i would guess its now completely dead.

the guy in shop probably sold you wrong relays. Was it a car parts place? Go to car stereo place instead.
if they ask any questions then tell them a friend of yours told you that the relay you need is as common as dirt and everybody used it for everything from stereos to alarms to headlights to boat stuff. and that's the one you want.

 

[Justinde]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

Thanks Rritt

Can I use a small bead of silicone as a gasket?

It was a car parts place- i'm gettin out the multi meter to test.

She went from buzzing at the ptt, and starting, to not starting, and some buzzing.

Thanks for the info.

 

[RRitt]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

Thanks Rritt

Can I use a small bead of silicone as a gasket?

definitely not on the sealing washers. go to a good hardware store and buy some aluminum sealing washers with bonded neoprene or buna gasket.

the square rings? i would not but if your old ones are still pliable with no cracking. then wash them with a mild cleaner to get rid of any oil. clean out the groove in plastic with rubbing alchohol or something. inspect motor body. if any rust on callar then sand with 220, touch with phosphoric acid, dab with paint, let dry. seat square rings into plastic and carefully put a minimalist skin of sealant around gasket. leave bolts with 1/4 turn. allow sealant to dry thoroughly. tighten last 1/4 turn.

still - these motors are so sensitive to even the slightest moisture. it's better to just get the right parts in the first place.

 

[Justinde]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

Hey Rritt

When I said I 'took it apart' it was 2 bolts on the top of the electrical motor- I only saw 2 rubber seals. I put it back together again, and I am happy to get seals for this, but are there more than I know?

I didn't touch the resovoir or any other component, just 2 bolts and the elc motor.

Does this make sense??

Can post pics if needed

 

[RRitt]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

there is a seal between the brush cap and the metal body. there is another seal between the metal body and the oil reservoir.

 

[Justinde]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

There are the 2 seals- I'll buy them if I need, but will a smear of silicone suffice, and will a squirt of WD40 hurt??

 

[RRitt]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

wd40 will not do anything good inside the motor at this point in time. when a motor is rebuilt there may be one or two small places where you want a dab of grease to prevent burning. but yours is not a new motor. There is nowhere that the wd40 will be beneficial to a healthy motor. It could be harmful in the wrong places.

silicone should be used with caution. it has a habit of breaking off chunks that can plug up hydraulic channels or interfere with electrical contacts.

 

[Justinde]

Re: PTT ARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH/Electrical AAAARARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHH

Seals & no WD it is... I'll post updates as I go- hopefully I can troubleshoot the PTT myself