probably long overdue... need some help

[32_d3gr33s]

Alright. I have a 16' speedboat with an outboard motor. I bought it almost 3 years ago. When i bought it, it had no title, so i received a bill of sale from the owner. he had purchased it months earlier and did the same thing. I did some repairs on the boat, and haven't quite finished it. I dont have time or money to finish it, and i need it off my property soon (rental property). I have The bill of sale from both previous owners, but no registration and no title. What would be the best thing to do in this situation? Let whoever wants to buy it, register it, and then file for lost title? or should i do that before selling? I live in michigan.

I came across this, SOS - Watercraft
but not having registered a boat before, im not sure if you "can" register a boat without having previous registration. Can anyone help me?

(from link above:
Watercraft Registration - Transferring Ownership
If the watercraft is not titled, simply complete the back of your watercraft registration as part of the transfer or sale. If you have lost the registration, then a complete bill of sale with the year, make, hull identification number, registration number (if available), and the names and addresses of the buyer and seller. If you need a replacement watercraft registration, you may obtain one online through ExpressSOS or at a Secretary of State office.)

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: probably long overdue... need some help

Unfortunately boat title/registration rules are different in every state. Some states title boats, some don't. Some states require a notarized bill of sale when transferring registration, some don't. etc. etc. etc. Off the top of my head I'd say it's going to be tough to register it without the previous registration card, but the real answer to your problem is going to be had by talking to your local Secretary of State office.

 

[32_d3gr33s]

Re: probably long overdue... need some help

Unfortunately boat title/registration rules are different in every state. Some states title boats, some don't. Some states require a notarized bill of sale when transferring registration, some don't. etc. etc. etc. Off the top of my head I'd say it's going to be tough to register it without the previous registration card, but the real answer to your problem is going to be had by talking to your local Secretary of State office.

thanks for your input. I guess i was hoping someone would chime in with a similar situation and the outcome. If you were in my shoes, would you try and register it, and then sell. Or let the new buyer handle it? from the paragraph i quoted from SOS, it says that if no title, all you need is bill of sale. If im reading that right... also is states that

"Watercraft Title - Requirements
All watercraft 20 feet and longer, and all watercraft with a permanently affixed engine, regardless of length, must be titled. Watercraft not required to be titled may be titled as an option."

Which means my 16' with outboard does not neet to be titled, correct?

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: probably long overdue... need some help

I know a boat broker that delayed a sale because his SELLER allowed the registration to expire 4 months prior. He said a few days delay to get it registered again would save possible problems to big headaches later.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: probably long overdue... need some help

"Watercraft Title - Requirements
All watercraft 20 feet and longer, and all watercraft with a permanently affixed engine, regardless of length, must be titled. Watercraft not required to be titled may be titled as an option."

Which means my 16' with outboard does not neet to be titled, correct?

I think by your logic the engine in an I/O isn't permanently affixed either, since you can remove the engine by loosening a few bolts and hooking up an engine hoist, no different than an outboard. I'm guessing your boat needs a title, but you really really shouldn't be getting legal advice from an internet forum. Just call the state office that deals with boat registration and ask, they should be able to give you the answer.

ALSO, another thought: How much do you realistically think you'd be able to sell your boat for? I'm guessing a project boat in the midst of repairs isn't going to fetch a whole lot. If you're not going to be able to sell it because of title issues you might be better off parting it out.

 

[32_d3gr33s]

Re: probably long overdue... need some help

I think by your logic the engine in an I/O isn't permanently affixed either, since you can remove the engine by loosening a few bolts and hooking up an engine hoist, no different than an outboard. I'm guessing your boat needs a title, but you really really shouldn't be getting legal advice from an internet forum. Just call the state office that deals with boat registration and ask, they should be able to give you the answer.

ALSO, another thought: How much do you realistically think you'd be able to sell your boat for? I'm guessing a project boat in the midst of repairs isn't going to fetch a whole lot. If you're not going to be able to sell it because of title issues you might be better off parting it out.

I guess I just don't see how an outboard is considered a permanently affixed engine. Though, it was another thread on here where I read that a 16' boat with outboard did not need to be titled.

The boats value is somewhere around a grand. Only thing left of the project is putting in new seats.

 

[greenbush future]

Re: probably long overdue... need some help

My 19 footer doesn't have a tittle and never did, it kind of worried me when I bought it because my previous 16 footer did have a tittle. And I'm in Michigan too.

 

[Jonnybbad]

Re: probably long overdue... need some help

SOS - Watercraft

Your link says that Michigan has the same rules as here in Minnesota: boats 16ft or less are not titled.

Watercraft exempt from registration are:

Those 16 feet or shorter, propelled by oars or paddles, and not used for rental or commercial purposes;
Nonmotorized canoes and kayaks not used for rental or commercial purposes, rafts, surfboards, sailboards, and swim floats, regardless of length; and
Watercraft registered in another state and used only temporarily in Michigan.

Here are Minnesota's titling rules if anyone is interested. Its quite straight forward. Watercraft licenses- registration procedures & fees: Minnesota DNR

 

[Jonnybbad]

Re: probably long overdue... need some help

I know the wording is a little sticky, but go over it a few times and I believe you will see what I see.

 

[32_d3gr33s]

Re: probably long overdue... need some help

I know the wording is a little sticky, but go over it a few times and I believe you will see what I see.

i think this boat originally came from MN, so that could explain why there isnt a title.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: probably long overdue... need some help

Unfortunately boat title/registration rules are different in every state. Some states title boats, some don't. Some states require a notarized bill of sale when transferring registration, some don't. etc. etc. etc. Off the top of my head I'd say it's going to be tough to register it without the previous registration card, but the real answer to your problem is going to be had by talking to your local Secretary of State office.

^^^ Agree.

... When i bought it, it had no title, so i received a bill of sale from the owner. he had purchased it months earlier and did the same thing... I have The bill of sale from both previous owners, but no registration and no title.

...... If the watercraft is not titled, simply complete the back of your watercraft registration ...

There is a difference between "Is Not Titled" and "It didn't come with a Title".
Just because you do not have the Title and do not know if one exists, does not mean that a Title does NOT exist.
If one exists and your name is not on it; You have POSSESSION of the Boat but you do not OWN the Boat.

It may very well never have been titled, but at some point, I am sure it was Registered.
What happened to the Bow Registration numbers?
They don't change when ownership changes unless the Registration is in a different state.
Can you still make out the numbers?

This can all take some time to straighten out.
You are correct in that it is long overdue, this should have been done three years ago before you put money into it.

 

[32_d3gr33s]

Re: probably long overdue... need some help

^^^ Agree.



There is a difference between "Is Not Titled" and "It didn't come with a Title".
Just because you do not have the Title and do not know if one exists, does not mean that a Title does NOT exist.
If one exists and your name is not on it; You have POSSESSION of the Boat but you do not OWN the Boat.

It may very well never have been titled, but at some point, I am sure it was Registered.
What happened to the Bow Registration numbers?
They don't change when ownership changes unless the Registration is in a different state.
Can you still make out the numbers?

This can all take some time to straighten out.
You are correct in that it is long overdue, this should have been done three years ago before you put money into it.

no numbers on boat anymore. They were partially there but are not anymore. and like i said, i think it came from MN because those were the 2 letters before the reg numbers on side of boat.

 

[spdracr39]

Re: probably long overdue... need some help

It also says even if you needed a title but don't have one you can get a surety bond and still get it registered. It may not be practical but at least they give you a way to do it. Your best option is to talk directly to the registration office, tell them your situation and see what they say your options are because they don't care about our opinions.