Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

CRT Skiff Crafter

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Aug 25, 2003
Messages
100
Hi all. Congratulations on the great forum. Glad I found you. I'll try to be concise and brief with my issue.<br /><br />I'm running a 302 Ford, (2bbl Holly) 188 HP Mercruiser in a 73 Skiff Craft 26' SFFB. I should preface this discussion with this: I've had this boat about 7 years. It has been only moderately used and was only in the water once in the last 3 years until this summer when I decided it was time to get it out. It was stored with full fuel tanks (with fuel stabilizer). <br /><br />I have done a serious restoration on it and it's in terrific condition, It really hasn't needed anything mechanically other than a sterndrive water pump. The engine and sterndrive have always performed wonderfully.<br /><br />When I finally got the boat on Lake Erie a few weeks ago, I started having some surging problems at high speed after using it for several days. It came on really suddenly and it seemed fuel related so I checked the screen in the fuel inlet and found nothing. Later I checked and changed fuel lines and replaced the fuel/water separator filter, (although I didn't inspect the gas in the filter for water and probably should have). I also checked the fuel level in the float bowl which was OK. <br /><br />The next time I tested the boat, I saw some arching around the coil, which ultimately led me to replace the points, cap, rotor, condensor, plugs and plug wires and coil. The engine ran a lot smoother and the idle was far more reliable, but the high end isn't there and although the surging isn't as pronounced, it's still a bit "erratic". According to my tach readings, there could be another 800 to 1000 rpm's in the engine waiting to be released! More on this in a minute.<br /><br />So today I decided to put a timing light/dwell meter on it just for the heck of it. The dwell was good, but I could not for the life of me site any timimg marks. Nada! I can tell that the timing is steady just by the consistent appearance of the various blemishes on the damper. So I moved the timing up and down just to see if the marks showed up, but they did not. <br /><br />Now I realize that this engine can't possibly be out of time enough to hide the marks, but I am preplexed as to what is going on. <br /><br />Something else of interest is that the tach on the timing light reads a lot more rpm's than the boat tachs do. Perhaps enough to indicate full rpm (meaning the missing 800 or 1000 rpm's I mentioned before) is actually being achieved. However, none of this was done under load which is where the problems really appear. <br /><br />I am thinking that the power/erratic running problem may be related to one or more of these:<br /><br />Debris in the fuel tank which is intermittently blocking the tank fuel outlet and is too big to actually go down the fuel line?<br /><br />And/or water in the tank? <br /><br />The fuel pump is getting ready to die?<br /><br />The carb needs rebuilt?<br />There is a problem with the distributor. (worn lobes?).<br /><br />Before I start messing further (especially dealing with gasoline, as in draining tanks, which I can't think of a sane way to do), I would like some opinions of what else I might have a look at. Have I missed something really obvious here? <br /><br />If all else fails, I'll take it to a marine store which can dyno it and then I'll second mortgage my house to pay for something I could have done for about 1% of the cost. I'm not a lucky guy.<br /><br />Any guidance will be more appreciated than I can express.<br /><br />Regards, CRT.
 

snapperbait

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
5,754
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

Run off all the old fuel or drain the tanks, and rebuild the carb... <br /><br /> One other thought... When you changed the points, did you by any chance inspect the advance springs and weights? They do get rusty and the springs loose their "spring" over time...
 

CRT Skiff Crafter

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Aug 25, 2003
Messages
100
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

Thanks snapperbait! Seems like sound advice. Any suggestions for an easy way to pump out the fuel tanks? I looked around for a utility pump that could do fuel and didn't cost as much as my boat, but had no success. I suppose I could purchase an inexpensive electric fuel pump? Want to avoid pulling the tanks if possible. the keel tank is gonna be a real chore.<br /><br />BTW, I didn't think to check the distributor components, but I will tomorrow!<br /><br />Regards, CRT.
 

Norm Malcosky

Seaman
Joined
Aug 14, 2002
Messages
70
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

CRT,<br /><br />I had a 302 in a 1973 LUND fiberglass boat. It was a very dependable engine (188 HP). However, the 2bbl carb needed frequent re-adjustment of float level. Just for sure, get a marine carb rebuild kit and take your time cleaning and rebuilding it. Check the float for fuel saturation (if it is a plastic one).<br /><br />I also think you may have your timing light on the wrong spark plug wire. The #1 cylinder on a Ford 302 is on the front of the right bank (passenger side if it were a car). GM engines are just the opposite as #1 is on the front of the left bank. <br /><br />Enjoy your newly rebuilt boat, but hurry, summer is drawing to an end.<br /><br />erie_guy<br />Columbus/Port Clinton, OH
 

CRT Skiff Crafter

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Aug 25, 2003
Messages
100
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

Thanks erie_guy. <br />I'll check the float situation and level today. I am also definitely gonna do the carb rebuild. <br />As far as the timing light, it was on the front starboard cylinder which is correct. I'm stumped on that one. I also need to dispose of my fuel, but I have to give that some more thought. I need to figure out an easy way to pump it out and also find a recycling or disposal situation in the area. I hate dealing with gasoline! :( <br />Thanks again!<br />CRT
 

JasonB

Lieutenant
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Feb 10, 2003
Messages
1,449
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

Two things come to mind. My 302 did something similar because my memory failed me. Make sure you are using the plug OPPOSITE the fuel pump as number one. Secondly, many (most) of the 188's used 351 timing. A friend who works on Chevy's tried to set the timing for me in the spring, it surged quite a bit until he timed off the correct wire. Just some thoughts.
 

McKenzie

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Apr 25, 2003
Messages
192
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

If your boat is still in the drive way, siphon it out (you may have to jack up the trailer like i did). Get one of the $5 outboard primer bulbs and get some hose. Put an oil drum or something on the ground and get siphoning.
 

airman

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Aug 9, 2003
Messages
332
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

2 thoughts - 1st of all, it is possible to have the timing out so far that you can't see the mark. I timed an engine once w/o a timing light because I didn't have one and we were leaving the next day. When I finally got a light it took me an hour to time it because I couldn't find the mark and I didn't beleive it when I saw it. If the distributor was off it's really easy to get a long ways off and the engine will still run surprisingly well at low power settings. Find the mark and set the timing before you spend any $. 2nd - I've seen several tachs read inaccurate. The best was on a friend's boat with twins. The synch light would come on when the tachs disagreed by 500rpm. After a while the tachs would agree but nothing had been changed.
 

Dunaruna

Admiral
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May 2, 2003
Messages
6,027
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

Had a similar problem timing my 302w, it was running like a dream so I knew it wasn't far out but could not see any marks, after acid etching the surface (watch the rubber) there it was! The timing mark groove is not very deep, Paint, rust etc had 'hidden' the mark. If rust is to bad just replace balancer. Just my 2cents worth. Aldo
 

Boomyal

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Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

try this link for "gas syphon/pump". there are probably lots of others under this search. also you can try your local Fishermans Supply or Boaters World type places. They are cheap and pump/syphon gas pretty fast. To be safe, use the pumped gas up in your car, a quarter tank at a time. don't want to waste that $2.oo a gallon stuff and it won't hurt your car.<br /><br /> http://www.allproducts.com.tw/plastic/hdpestar/19-s602.html
 

CRT Skiff Crafter

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Aug 25, 2003
Messages
100
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

To everyone who has responded to my post thus far:<br /><br />I never expected such a great "turn out"! You guys are the best! Thanks so much for all the great advice!. I've got lots of ammunition now and I'm gonna get this thing figured out. <br /><br />Man that timing thing is certainly weird! I know I'm on the correct cylinder (front starboard), so I'll have to go over the balancer with a fine-tooth-comb and find some marks. If the timing is off far enough to hide them, it's a wonder it runs at all! However, anything is possible, especially if it has to do with marine.<br /><br />Great suggestion about dumping the gas into my car! My non-towing vehicle is a Geo Metro and I can probably run for 3 months on the gas in the boat!<br /><br />I'll update as soon as anything changes. <br /><br />Keep em' on plane!<br /><br />Regards, CRT.
 

CRT Skiff Crafter

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Aug 25, 2003
Messages
100
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

Update:<br />Well, I finally drained off all the fuel and rebuilt that carb. Even took the main body, metering block and throttle body and had it boiled out. So I got it all back together and took the boat out today. Sure starts nice and idles really well. I set the idle jets and adjusted the float level. However, it's still running funky with surging issues. And of course, the sucker backfired and no doubt took out my brand new power valve! It also seemed that as time went on, even the low rpm running got crappier, but this could be a tweaking issue. <br /><br />I have not checked the fuel pump nor have I found the timing marks. Although I can verify that the distributor is advancing because I can see a blemish on the damper move up and down (congruent with rpm changes) in relation to the timing point when viewed with the timing light.<br /><br />I suppose my next move should be a fuel pump test. I tried to find a low pressure gauge, but can't seem to find one. I'm almost tempted to temporarily hook up an electric fuel pump just to see if it fixes anything. <br /><br />I am more than a little afraid to run a compression check, although it just feels like a fuel starvation problem. You know that feeling when it's trying to open up and just can't get there and it bogs and then tries again... <br /><br />The only good thing is that I've got 30 gallons of gas in my garage and I won't have to buy gas for my wheels for a while!<br /><br />I am not one to give up easily, but I'm really getting frustrated dealing with it. If anyone has any additional suggestions, I'd be extremely pleased to hear them. I am getting very close to taking it to a marine mechanic just to keep from being locked up in a psycho ward :eek: <br /><br />Regards to all!
 

chris in va

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
410
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

I also have a 302/2bbl Holley setup on my 94. Mine was simply sucking down gas at insane rates, and idling horribly. Looking down the carb with the flame arrestor off, I saw gas just DUMPING into the carb. A kind stranger on here suggested I take off the bowl and check the float needle valve, and to my suprise the flat metal 'spring' that holds the float at tension had bent all the way down, allowing gas to freely flood the carb. <br /><br />You may have the opposite problem...spring tension may be too much. You don't have a hidden inline gas filter somewhere do you?
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
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Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

I assume your carb rebuild kit came w/ a float adjustment guage. That being set properly, look down the carb throat at an idle. If you see gas dripping out of the two uvulae above the venturis and the butterflys are wet, then you blew your powervalve. To confirm it, ease the the throttle up to 1800-2000 rpm and see if the dripping quits, the butterflys dry out and the engine runs smoother. At that it would still be running extremely rich and could cause running issues.<br /><br />On the fuel pump, you should have a double diaphram marine pump. If it should happen to be the original, it's probably dying. Here is a link for the cheapest marine fuel pump around.<br /><br />http://ebasicpower.american-data.net/Me rchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=eBasicPower&Product_Code=GLM77040&Category_Code=MER7F<br /><br />The cheapest I could find it locally was $177.00.<br />Do not run an automotive pump and this one is probably as cheap or cheaper than messing with an electric pump. Also more reliable.<br /><br />As for the timing mark, that could definitely be an issue. Find the #1 mark on the distributor cap, take off the cap and scribe a line on the top rim of the distributor (as close to inline with the contact as you can make it) use a breaker bar and turn the engine crank pulley nut around till the rotor lines up with your mark. You are now either at top dead center for #1 cylinder or 180 deg off. I am not sure on a Merc/Ford but on an OMC/Ford the timing indicator is mounted on the block at about the 1-2 oclock position of the crank pulley. Once you have the rotor at the #1 mark, clean the snot out of the crank pulley in the area of the timing indicator. If you find nothing, rotate the rotor around one time, back to your scribed mark and clean the crank pulley again. The marks would Have? to be at one of those two positions on the crank pulley.
 

Rhadley

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jul 20, 2003
Messages
219
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

Just for grins, have you tried hooking up to the other wires to see if the mark shows up? And, can you see the mark anywhere with the engine off?
 

CRT Skiff Crafter

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Aug 25, 2003
Messages
100
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

Hi fellow boater dudes. Thanks for the replies.<br /><br />Chris in va: The needle is all jolly. Also, I don't find any extra filters, just the water/fuel separator. Both good checks though!<br /><br />Boomyal: My float is externally adjustable and adjusts dry by inverting the bowl and adjusting the needle to get the float parallel to the bowl top, which I did. The wet adjustment acted as expected and I was able to change the level in the bowl, which I set as indicated (almost peaking out of the sight hole). I'll check the power valve using your test procedures and report. I just purchased a gauge and am going to do the fuel pump test. I believe this is the culprit. Thanks for the turn-on for a pump source. A question: If I were to hook up an external electric fuel pump for test purposes, would I need a regulator or will the float take care of stopping the flow of fuel "against the will" of the electric pump? This seems like a very reliable and fast way to eliminate all of pump questions. <br /><br />Boomyal and Rhadley: I definitely need to find some timing marks! I haven't really ran the gauntlet on that one yet, but it's absurd that I can't find them! I even bumped the engine over very slowly and could not locate any marks. They must be totally gone! I'll check again. Hummm... Just had a thought. Wonder if I could get some timing tape and make my own? I can certainly locate the "real" TDC on number 1 using the procedure boomyal detailed! <br /><br />I'm getting weary! I don't know if its gonna be the looney bin or the poor house that ends up getting me! :confused: <br /><br />Thanks for your support men!<br /><br />Regards, CRT
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
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Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

Actually CFC, my proceedure will not itentify absolute TDC. It will only get you in the ballpark on the crank pulley/harmonic balancer. Additionally the crank pulley goes around twice for every revolution of the distrib rotor. So you can't even find the ballpark without some reference mark on the crank pulley. Have you located the static timing pointer yet? <br /><br />Again, I wouldn't mess with an electric fuel pump, especially just for testing. A lot of setup, electrical, fuel lines etc. just for the test. Use the pressure guage you have. That will tell the story. I thinks the range is 3.5 to 5.5 psi but don't quote me on that.
 

Len_Rice

Cadet
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Messages
8
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

having a ford small block gives you a tremendous advantage verses people like me stuck with a volvo motor. ensuring good gas is a good place to start, but the following, i assure you, will solve the problem, providing the long block is in good shape. <br />#1 index your balancer to true top dead center<br />#2 if your 2-bbl carb is not a newer carb with power-valve protection, disgard it, treat yourself to a nice new holley 2-bbl (300-500 cfm). <br />#3 trash your mechanical fuel pump and run a quality sealed electric pump with quality plumbling, filter, and pressure gauge. the fuel pump boss on the motor can then be blocked off with a block off plate.<br />#4 unless you're interseted in the "originality" of the old distributor, TRASH IT! this is 2003, points have no place on the water. going with an after market distributor with magnetic trigger firing an MSD box (or any number of great after market combos) is THE way to go.<br /><br />remember, as always, safety..., do good wiring and plumbing as you don't want to create a fire hazard. <br /><br /> food for thought, as always, my best,<br /><br /> Len Rice, MD
 

CRT Skiff Crafter

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Aug 25, 2003
Messages
100
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

The Latest:<br />This is getting more interesting by the post. Especially if your not me :confused: <br /><br />Well, the fuel pump pressure test yielded about 6psi. This is within range (5.25 to 6.5 psi) for a 302 CID - 888 Merc, (my setup), but not for engines within the serial number range that includes mine! My serial number range specifies 3.7 lbs. Here's the other thing I'm not certain about. Although the psi stayed in this range through out the rpm changes, there was a pulsing in the reading which was more pronounced with a wider variance at low rpm and more rapid with less fluxiation at higher rpm. This is sort of hard to articulate, but to reitterate, it stayed within the 6 psi area, but the pulsing was taking it quickly above and below the 6 psi mark. Not like a slow drop or rise, but a literal pulse. Again, the frequency of the pulsing was quicker with the variance reduced at higher rpm, but you could still see it. Perhaps it's just my gauge setup??? It is a new one, but only has a 1/4" fitting. Thus I was forced to rig a 1/4" T with to 3/8" legs. Perhaps the line on the gauge was too long and was collapsing and caused this pulse. I wish I was familiar with doing this so I could understand if this pulsing is normal or indicates a problem. By the way, When I turned off the engine the pressure sort of slowly - in maybe 15 seconds or so dropped to zero.<br /><br />The Flow test more than yielded a half quart of fuel in 30 seconds. Actually in about 15 seconds. Anybody need a Ball Jar? I bought a case to get something to dump fuel in for this test. :rolleyes: <br /><br />That's where I'm at today. tomorrow I intend to locate TDC if it kills me! I figure I'll pull number 1 plug and stick something in the hole and be sure that when number 1 is up that the distributer is where it's supposed to be. I can see the timing pointer on the engine just fine, However, I'm not certain how to make the marks on the damper appear. I'm afraid to sand it for fear of removing what might be left of them! I've never had this problem before and I don't know if I should paint the whole damper, or what to attempt to clean it with that won't eat me and what's left of the boat up! <br /><br />Boomyal: Once again, thanks for hangin in on this. It really helps. By the way, I did the power valve check and my carb is clean-as-a-whistle. No extra fuel anywhere. <br /><br />Rice: Thanks for clocking in on this. Although it would be cool to upgrade, I'm afriad my current financial resources won't support replacing everything with new parts. Additionally, I've yet to run a compression test (cant find my gauge anywhere or I would have done it today) and I wouldn't throw money at upgrades if I'm looking at an overhaul. <br /><br />I'm starting to think there might be something bad here. Then again, maybe something I've already considered and addressed is still a problem that I somehow didn't fix. <br /><br />New plugs, plug wires, points, condensor, cap, rotor and coil. Dwell reads dead on spec. New gas, new fuel lines, new fuel filter, carb rebuild. The engine starts better than ever and idles nice...<br /><br />AARRRGGGHHHH.... :mad: <br /><br />Oh well, we all know the definition of a boat. <br /><br />Well marine addicts, keep pumping the suggestions in here. If anyone can expound on the pulsing I saw in my pump test, I'd appreciate it.<br /><br />Regards to all! CRT.
 

chris in va

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 4, 2003
Messages
410
Re: Power issues 188 hp mercruiser 302 Ford

Certainly no expert CRT, but I believe a mechanical fuel pump such as yours works on a diaphragm, so when the rpm's increase, so do the pulses. The actual size of the pulse would probably have to be bigger at low rpm just to keep things moving.
 
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