Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

[quinn1]

Had some engine problems last weekend. I was pulling two adults on a tube with two adults in the boat and two things happened almost at once: the alarm buzzer sounded and the engine stopped running. Temperature gauge did not read above normal, and tach did not read above 4600 rpm. Battery was checked and fully charged. Had a little less than a half tank of gas. Tried a restart and the engine cranks, but won?t start. That is, it will fire once or twice, then stop.

After a tow back to dock, I took it to the local Chaparral dealer/service center, and the mechanic?s diagnosis is that the head gasket is blown because he found water in the oil system and the oil dipstick indicates overfull.

The mechanic suspects that the head gasket has failed once already caused by overheating. There is scorching visible on the exhaust manifold and on the seawater pump. I tend to agree with the prior overheating since I found a chewed up impeller in a crevice in the engine compartment about a month after I bought it.

Basis the oil condition and the previous overheating, his recommendation is to replace the engine because he says that once the head is warped, it is near impossible to keep it sealed.

His evidence seems flimsy considering the scope and cost of the repair. What else could be wrong, and what else should I have checked? If a warped head is confirmed, are any cheaper repairs possible? Besides replacing the gasket and praying, I mean. I was wondering if a possible solution is to re-machine the sealing faces or just replace the head. Any recommendations or ideas are welcome and appreciated.

2006 Chaparral 180 SSi
Volvo Penta 3.0L GLP-D
Product #:3869304
Serial #:4012183974
SX-M1 outdrive

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

So I am curious! how long have you owned this boat and how many hours have you put on it until this happened? Have you been checking the oil since you have owned the boat and has it ever looked like there was water in the oil?

I would be checking the compression before I did anything else. If that indicates you have low compression, I would pull the head and measure the flatness of the head mating surface on the block. If it is flat and the head gasket is the culprit, I would consider resurfacing the head, doing a valve job and reinstalling to see how that goes.

 

[Don S]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

How much water in the oil are we talking about here? How much over full? Was this the first trip of the season? How long had you been running.

A little water in the oil or a blown head gasket normally doesn't stop and engine instantly.

his recommendation is to replace the engine because he says that once the head is warped, it is near impossible to keep it sealed.

Has the head been removed from the engine and checked for flatness?

Too much doesn't add up.

 

[quinn1]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

So I am curious! how long have you owned this boat and how many hours have you put on it until this happened? Have you been checking the oil since you have owned the boat and has it ever looked like there was water in the oil?

I would be checking the compression before I did anything else. If that indicates you have low compression, I would pull the head and measure the flatness of the head mating surface on the block. If it is flat and the head gasket is the culprit, I would consider resurfacing the head, doing a valve job and reinstalling to see how that goes.

I've owned this boat (my first one) a little over a year. Last season changed the oil, oil filter, plugs...some water was in the oil back then. Took it to a mechanic to check the compression and he said all four cylinders were good, but I don't remember his readings. He ran the motor and didn't see any water in the oil, but he didn't do any further investigation to see what might have caused the water in the first place. This time, he did not do a compression check.

This was the third time this season I've been out, but must confess I did not check the oil.

I will certainly have the compression checked again and proceed from there. So far what I have found is that 140 - 150 psi is good, 100 psi or less indicates a problem. I will post back when I get the results. Many thanks.

 

[quinn1]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

Confirmed that the oil reservoir is over full. The oil level is half way up the dipstick, and the oil is milky.

I took the boat home and proceeded to take off the cylinder head. On the cylinder closest to the bow I found the following:

1. A hole through the piston.
2. A missing exhaust valve. According to my untrained eye, the valve stem broke. I expect the valve is somewhere under the piston.
3. A hole in the cylinder head. In the picture, it is directly below the spark plug hole.
4. A deformed spark plug tip. The tech installed these plugs about one year ago, so they aren?t a high performance plug?. just stock.

Pictures are attached except for the piston. That pic was too large to upload. Also, I did not see any damage to the head gasket sealing surfaces, the rocker arms, or the push rods.

I?m not sure what would cause this. I don?t want to invest in repairs without correcting the root problem.

In addition to a new head, any repair attempt looks like it would require an engine removal in order to replace the piston and to make sure there is no damage to the other pistons. Am I correct in this assessment?

Any wisdom or sage advice is welcome.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

In addition to a new head, any repair attempt looks like it would require an engine removal in order to replace the piston and to make sure there is no damage to the other pistons. Am I correct in this assessment?

Ayuh,.... That motor has to come out, 'n go to a Machine Shop,....

I'd Guess it detonated itself to death,....

 

[quinn1]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

Would a (reputable) machine shop be able to determine if there is internal damage to the block prior to doing a rebuild?

There was only 155 hours on the engine. Any ideas on what I should be looking for to see what caused the valve stem to break? Because of the watery oil last summer, I suspect there was another problem that caused the break and the ultimate death of my little engine.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

Would a (reputable) machine shop be able to determine if there is internal damage to the block prior to doing a rebuild?

There was only 155 hours on the engine. Any ideas on what I should be looking for to see what caused the valve stem to break? Because of the watery oil last summer, I suspect there was another problem that caused the break and the ultimate death of my little engine.

Ayuh,..... Absolutely, it's what they Do in Machine Shops...

I'd guess detonation smoked the valve,....

Check the fuel for water...

 

[quinn1]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

Apologies for the delay in responding...work has kept me from continuing my investigation.

Could not find a method for testing the fuel for water in this forum, and the local auto parts stores do not have any advice for checking this. I am considering trying a "water finding paste" that is sold on online. My plan would be to smear it on a fish tape reel I have that is used to run residential electrical wire, run it down the fill line into the gas tank, pull it back out and look for the color change. Any thoughts on this test?

I also went back and looked into the manifold and saw that it had water oil in it. I'm not sure this tells me the root cause of my problem since the piston had a hole in it and an exhaust valve broke off, but I am checking the manifold integrity by filling the cooling side with water and seeing if it holds a level. My concern with this test is that it is performed while the manifold is at room temperature...I would guess that a crack might not show when things are cool, but could open up at operating temperature. Based on some of the other posts I read, I will try this test with acetone also.

Some other things I checked: Removed the exhaust bellows and checked the exhaust riser. Some rust is present, but the cooling water channels don't appear to be too fouled. Removed the water pump, and the impeller appears to be in good condition and making a good seal with the pump housing.

Still not comfortable with fixing the engine until I can determine a root cause for the dropped valve/blown piston.

As before, all advice is welcome and appreciated.

 

[GMC2003]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

Testing the manifolds with water cold didn't work for me. Got out on the lake and hydrolocked the engine... Acetone should work for you though, sorry to hear about your engine

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

You need to pressure test it with air. You will have to create a blocking plate where the riser connects. Can you post some pictures of the manifold? This a salt water boat?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

Could not find a method for testing the fuel for water

Ayuh,.... Pump a quart or 2 outa the tank, from the motor's gas line, 'n let it sit in a bowl,...
It'll separate, 'n you'll See the water....

Mount a canister type filter, up-stream of the fuel pump, to keep water out, on a regular basis..

I'm not sure this tells me the root cause of my problem since the piston had a hole in it and an exhaust valve broke off,

There's No signs of water from the manifold,... No rust, No scrubbed clean cylinders,... No steam cleaned chambers...

Detonation overheated the exhaust valve, 'n it popped it's top...

Is the motor over-proped,..??

 

[quinn1]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

You need to pressure test it with air. You will have to create a blocking plate where the riser connects. Can you post some pictures of the manifold? This a salt water boat?

Some manifold/riser pics attached. One is of the manifold during a leak test with acetone. No liquid in the exhaust side, and no level drop except for evaporation losses...it gets hot in Texas garages. I'll see what I can do about doing a pressure test. Any recommendations on what I should pressure it up to?

Oh, and it is a fresh water boat, but there is some salt water ingress into the river/lake from the gulf if you are below the salt water barrier.

 

[quinn1]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

Ayuh,.... Pump a quart or 2 outa the tank, from the motor's gas line, 'n let it sit in a bowl,...
It'll separate, 'n you'll See the water....

Mount a canister type filter, up-stream of the fuel pump, to keep water out, on a regular basis..



There's No signs of water from the manifold,... No rust, No scrubbed clean cylinders,... No steam cleaned chambers...

Detonation overheated the exhaust valve, 'n it popped it's top...

Is the motor over-proped,..??

Siphoned out some gas from the tank and didn't see a water layer. I didn't really expect to since I put in about 3/4 tank of gas before heading out on the water that day.

Not sure if it is over propped, but I don't think I was getting the performance I should have. Performance just prior to the death of my engine, I was getting 32 mph @ 4800 rpm. That was at roughly 3/4 throttle though...it was not wide open. Speedometer was within 2 mph of the gps. Test was with a full tank of gas, cooler, two adults, and two teenage girls. That seems low to me based on what I've read. I was thinking it should be closer to 40 mph at that rpm. I had been reading up on performance and propellers before this happened. I'm not sure if I have the stock propeller or not, and I don't see anything that tells me who might have made the prop. More stats:

SX-M1 outdrive
2.18 gear ratio
Serial #: 4202167281
4-blade, 14x21 aluminum propeller

I'm working on getting a quote from a machine shop to rebuild the engine, but as best I can tell, buying a replacement head, valve, and piston will cost around $1,000 not including the labor. Of course this assumes that no other damage is found.

The dealer quoted me $7,800 parts and labor to install a new engine, which I find outrageous considering he didn't even take the head off to begin with. Besides, it looks to me like Michigan Motorz has a direct replacement for $2,100 plus freight. Add a few hundred bucks for labor for a rebuild, and it looks like I might as well get a new engine. Considering all that you get from Michigan Motorz, the gear heads at work think that's a pretty good deal.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

Your manifolds and risers look pretty good. The worry I have is the corrosion I see in the exhaust port down near the riser which would indicate that you possibly had a bad riser gasket or a cracked manifold. Can you take a closer pic of the exhaust ports on the manifold?

 

[quinn1]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

Bruce, some closer pictures of the manifold.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

Looks like you had a leak at the manifold/riser junction.

 

[quinn1]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

Is it the surface rust that indicates a leak? I thought that was caused by condensation...the boat is kept covered outside under a porch.

I cleaned up the sealing surface and checked the level with a straight edge, but I'm not sure how "flat" it has to be. Is it a tight tolerance like on a cylinder head/engine block joint? I was expecting to re-install this manifold.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

Its the rust inside the exhaust chamber where there should be no rust.

It needs to be flat. Check the flatness and have it machined if it isn't. Check the riser as well. Use new gaskets and make sure you use a torques wrench and apply the correct torque. Some of the aftermarket manifolds come non flat. One of the reasons I only use OEM if I can.

 

[quinn1]

Re: Possible warped head on 3.0L GLP-D?

Bruce, considering the cost difference between a repair vs. a rebuild vs. a replacement, I'm leaning toward an engine replacement. Been reading other threads related to manifolds, and I see a few recommendations to replace the riser and manifold if you are going to replace the engine. The thinking is "Why take the chance?", but it had mostly to do with older engines/manifolds. Does this reasoning apply to all engine replacements?

As an update, I was able to get to a lift last weekend and got the engine out. Once I got everything off the engine, was surprised at how easy it was. Took off the mounting nuts, raised the engine slightly, gave it a slight tug, and it slid right off the u-joint assembly. Going to tear into it more this weekend.