Possible cracked block, need help troubleshooting.

[Boater31]

Hello Everyone,

Purchased my boat last year at the end of the season. Engine is a '99 Mercruiser 4.3L w/ Alpha 1 Gen 2 (0L323711) 225 hours. Ran it before winterizing and no problems. Had local marine do the winterizing, oil change and compression test. I was told oil came out clean, compression was around 225 across the board (to high?), and winterized by running in antifreeze for full flush. I just recently started it for the first time this year, started super easy and ran great. Port manifold got hot to the touch but thinking that was because boat was tilted toward starboard pretty good. Oil level was just under full both before and after running. Went back a couple days later and noticed there was about 1" more fluid on dip stick. No discoloring but when I started draining oil from the pan it came out milky. Unfortunately I had to leave it like this for last couple days do to work but left the level at full mark. Tomorrow I am planning on finish changing oil and filter. This brings me to you guys to see if my idea of trouble shooting is sound and hopefully cost effective. I have never seen temps get above 130-140?, but also have only been on the hose and the one time in 40-45? water. Here are the steps I plan on using.

1. Finish oil change.
2. Pressure test block. (Block manifold houses and plumb in gauge to transom hose and build to 15psi hold overnight). If that hopefully passes step 3, if it fails then start looking to buy new long block.
3. Compression test cylinders. If that passes then not sure whats next. Still do step 4?
4. Leak down test.
5. Pull valve covers and heads.

Hopefully that will give me a idea of whats going on. If it fails step 2 then its kinda no brainer I think. Steps 3 -5 would lead me to think something is wrong with heads so probably just replace them or head gasket if they check out good.

Any comment's or flaws in my thought process.

Thanks in advance. This is the Link to the posting about the hot manifold.
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...ngines-outdrives/10413405-riser-temp-question

 

[Rick Stephens]

Tell us about your winterizing. One of the problems with just hooking up antifreeze and pulling that until it runs out the exhaust is the thermostat never opens and your engine never gets enough antifreeze in the block, it all runs out the exhaust. Cold weather comes along and you freeze crack the block. The only way you can safely winterize is to pull all the plugs and drain everything, only then add antifreeze if you are insistent on that step, however a dry block will never freeze.

At this point you should change the oil and run it till it comes to temperature. Then change the oil again. If you are dumping water in, that will tell you. Then you can do a water system pressurization test and see where you hear the air escaping.

 

[hoowahfun]

I would be placing a call to the marina that "winterized" your boat...

 

[Boater31]

I didn't do the winterizing so I'm going by what the mechanic told me. He says what they do is stick the drive in a tank, picture a deep kiddy pool, filled with anti freeze. Then run motor until it reaches normal temps for a while. Should open thermostat and flush all water passages if I understand his process correctly.

So you would recommend​ running it again before pressure test. I can do that since oil is cheaper I just assumed since the level increased it for sure meant some kinda problem.

PS I also have the bad 1piece manifolds. On the list to get replaced already.

 

[Bt Doctur]

I think you need to file a claim with the mechanic who did the work

 

[tlewis1]

'I think you need to file a claim with the mechanic who did the work'


That is what I would be doing.... You payed them to do a job and the least you could do is take it back and have them source the issue for you on their dime.

 

[Oshkosh1]

I think you need to file a claim with the mechanic who did the work

That MAY be of some assistance way down the road...but proving liability in such cases are very difficult and often more costly than the engine itself.

FFR...do the winterization yourself using the "Dryblock" method. I fire it up, let it come up to temp, pull the plugs, drain the block/manifolds, pull the lower rad, power steering hoses and blow compressed air through it all. Done. Takes about 5 min once the engine is shut off. I've seen the slushy consistency of pink A/F at -35..."Not in my engine"!lol!

Change the oil/filter, run it and see what you have. If you get another milkshake then move on to the compression/leakdown test and report back

 

[Boater31]

That sounds like a plan. I'll do oil change tomorrow and run it. If it's still milky I'll try calling the shop and see if what he says.

 

[Boater31]

So I got some bad news. I maybe created two problems for my self.
1. I had to raise the bow of the boat and trailer and used a forklift. Problem is I forgot drive was still down from running the engine, engine was off now, more on that next. Long story short I walked back and saw it touching the ground, ran back and lowered everything back and raised the drive. Couldn't see anything on concrete or any new damage to the drive. Looked for cracks excessive looseness, etc. There is a very small amount of play and that's it but think its always that way. Is there a way to see if I did damage, pressure test the drive maybe. I don't think I pushed it hard into the ground but no way to know for sure.

2. Now on the the real reason this thread is here. I changed the oil, even poured about a quart of new threw until it came out clean. Filled it up and ran it. It was harder to start this time compared to the first time. Not sure if it was just because oil pressure needed to build up and fill the new filter. When it did start it seemed to run fine. Ran it for about 15 minutes. Would have gone longer but the port manifold (batwing ) got almost to hot to touch. That did happen on the first start of the season also. This time I made sure the boat was level side to side so water should flow evenly but very little water came out port side and Starboard stayed very cool. I'm sure the new 2 piece manifold are in my future sooner then later. After the test I drained the port manifold thinking maybe thats how water got in the first time. That water ended up going up the drain pipe to ski locker hence to forklift to drain it out again. After about 1 hour I checked the oil and it was rising. I drained about 1/2 quart from drain plug and it was milky already. So i clearly have a problem somewhere.

Solutions? I'm going to call the marina that winterized it because he was supposed to check out the motor before he did work on it before the winterizing. I feel if he truly did he would told me there was a problem. So it must have gotten damaged over the winter so his fault as you guys mentioned. Now assuming he says its not his fault, I think going to small clams would probably cost as much as the engine swap. Not going down that road. What do you guys suggest to start testing, pressure test block, compression test cylinders, pull manifolds and heads.

As always thanks for the help. I guess Murphey has come to visit.

 

[Oshkosh1]

I don't think you need any further testing. Time to get after the manifold. Check the gasket/mating surfaces/cylinders to see where the intrusion is specifically. Depending on your relationship with the marina, you may have better luck adhering to the "you catch more bees with honey" approach rather than demanding they pay for damages. Even IF they did do something, proving it is a whole different ball-o-wax so they could simply clam up and say "prove it" and it's pretty much done. If you go in with a relatively good attitude, basically "accidents happen...I just want my boat to work", they may at least try and help you along.

I'd plan on at least new manifolds/gaskets if that's the source the rest of the engine is still good as the water hasn't been sitting in there for a prolonged period and it still turns over.

Time to get to work. Post some pics as you go along as that can help diagnose as well.

 

[Boater31]

I figured I wouldn't get very far with the mechanic but figured a phone call couldn't hurt and agree demanding would be counter productive.

I will try and get the manifold off tomorrow and hopefully just find a bad gasket.

As for my other mess up, could I have done damage to the drive or would it be obvious.

 

[Oshkosh1]

As for my other mess up, could I have done damage to the drive or would it be obvious.

Unless it's externally damaged or the skeg is bent/broken then I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Boater31]

That is good news. I took both manifolds off. Tried getting pictures uploaded but having problems on my end. The port side (side running hot) didn't show any signs of water in the ports or on the plugs. The starboard side leaked water as soon as I pulled it off. That is the side that was cold. The #6 exhaust valve had water pooling on it, #4 had traces of water and # 2 was dry. I pulled the plugs and 6 was wet and 4 had little moister on it with 2 being dry. I cranked the engine until no more vapor came out of the #6 plug. Clearly I need new manifolds. Guessing I should do the conversion to the 2 piece manifold. Doing a compression check tomorrow to see if any damage was done to the cylinders. Anything else I should be checking.

 

[TyeeMan]

I was going to suggest immediately pulling all your spark plugs to see if any of them were wet. I would suggest spraying plenty of fogging oil into the cylinders that are wet, roll over the engine and spray in some more.

When my manifold gaskets failed a couple cylinders filled with water to the point that I couldn't even roll over the engine a few degrees.
Lots of fogging oil and a couple of oil and filter changes an all was good.

 

[Oshkosh1]

So long as you can get the bulk of the moisture out, you'll be fine. Drain the sump, hose whatever is wet down with brake cleaner which is mostly alcohol and will displace the moisture. Get a small fan to run constantly around the engine block. Just the air circulating around with dry things out pretty quickly. Leave it on day and night until you're done.

 

[Boater31]

Fogging oil is a good idea. I'll get some in today after compression test.
Oshkosh, I plan on doing another oil change. I'm confused on what to do with the fan and brake cleaner. Do I spray it in the exhaust ports and spark plug holes or are you saying I should pull the valve covers? For the fan should I just have it blowing across the engine?

 

[bruceb58]

I don't think you need any further testing. Time to get after the manifold. Check the gasket/mating surfaces/cylinders to see where the intrusion is specifically.

He has batwing manifolds. There are no "mating surfaces". He doesn't have a separate riser.

 

[bruceb58]

The port side (side running hot) didn't show any signs of water in the ports or on the plugs.

Besides ditching those manifolds, check the thermostat housing and the port that delivers water to that hot manifold. You could have corrosion in that area preventing a good flow of water.

 

[Lou C]

Oh and for the future on the manual drain procedure:
​after removing the drain plug, make sure to use a thin screwdriver or long wood screw to rod out the drain hole, it is common for them to get clogged with rust flakes and not drain, then the expanding water breaks things! Compressed air may not do the trick always always rod them out. Rust flakes are very common in raw water cooled cast iron engines.

 

[Oshkosh1]

Fogging oil is a good idea. I'll get some in today after compression test.
Oshkosh, I plan on doing another oil change. I'm confused on what to do with the fan and brake cleaner. Do I spray it in the exhaust ports and spark plug holes or are you saying I should pull the valve covers? For the fan should I just have it blowing across the engine?

I'd pull the valve covers as there's probably some of the "milkshake" still sitting in there. Clean soak up as much water contaminated oil as possible, hit it with brake clean and then re-lube with fresh oil prior to putting it all back together. So long as the majority of any moisture is out of the cylinders and the plugs are out, simply allow the fan to blow across the engine to get some air circulation and promote the remaining moisture to evaporate. I've had pretty "wet' engines dry in a couple of days with a box fan.