Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

[QC]

This is kind of a fun puzzle. We have all engaged in the typical Port/Starboard discussion, but I think I have a new twist that I don't recall ever seeing discussed . . .

There is a tiny three car Ferry here in Newport Beach, CA between Balboa Peninsula and Balboa Island (1/4 mile). The family crossed on it yesterday. The boats go back and forth without turning around. Due to the wind I was going to direct my family to sit on one side and I started to suggest "Starboard". Well since the boat doesn't turn around I realized that Starboard was going to be Port on the return . . . Doh!

There is a single helm "station" on one side of the boat, but there are two wheels. So you are facing the direction of travel. One set of controls that can be reached from either wheel. The operator actually switches to the opposite side of the helm. Which side is Starboard? I thought the whole idea of Port and Starboard was to eliminate the left/right thing, but I am not sure which is which here So I asked the Captain and the discussion kind of cleared it up for me. Kind of. Your thoughts?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

So I asked the Captain and the discussion kind of cleared it up for me. Kind of.

Ayuh,... I'd Guess it would be determined by which way the Captain is facing...
Or,...
Possibly which end the Power comes from...

 

[RWilson2526]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

what does it have for navigation lights? 2 sets depending on which way it is going? BTW I'll take Bond-o's answer about which ever end the power is on is the stern.

 

[rjlipscomb]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

My guess would be that the helm was on the starboard side.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

Is this a free floating untethered ferry?
My guess it is cabled?
So it isn't a boat at all, it is a cable car!

 

[rjlipscomb]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

I'm guessing the conversation went something like this:

"The actual origin of the term "port" is speculated to be because the left side of old merchant sailing ships had a loading or entry port. The right side had a steering board that hung over the side of the ship (before the invention of rudders) which is where the term starboard comes from. So if the steering board hung over the right side, the boat would need to dock on its left side, or put into port on its left side."

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

and as such the helm (stick hooked to the stearing board) was on the starboard side

 

[QC]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

Ayuh,... I'd Guess it would be determined by which way the Captain is facing....

So this eliminates Starboard and Port as "fixed" which seems odd . . .

what does it have for navigation lights? 2 sets depending on which way it is going?

This was the clue I got from the Captain, but he did not know the "true" answer. He was confused by the question as well. There is a switch which tells me legally Port and Starboard are determined by direction of travel, so the words change with the lights and/or direction of travel. Direction of travel would not make this determination for a "normal" vessel as a boat moving in "reverse" does not change which side is which . . .

BTW I'll take Bond-o's answer about which ever end the power is on is the stern.

I did not get to this, but I know of a Ferry in British Columbia that has an I/O like "leg" that pivots 360 degrees. There is no forward or reverse, so how would you determine which end was the "stern" with that?

Is this a free floating untethered ferry?

Un-"tethered"

And to RJ and Smoke, there ain't no "steering board" on this vessel . . .

I am thinking that there must be some sort of legal definition of Port and Starboard for this type of scenario. If not how would you even begin to write up an accident report if you were the Coast Guard?

 

[themaniam1]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

So if I said the starboard engine is running rough. Which engine would the mechanic work on or better yet how would I even know which engine was starboard?

 

[Rogue427]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

This would be a better question for April 1st!!!

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

well I didn't realize you wanted a legal answer.... i suppose a legal answer would be "slipped and fell on the oil shown in photo 3 and hit head on handrail in photo 5" as for traditional the starboared is the side from which you "star" or steer the vessel...... my signature however most definately applies to the the comments in this thread

 

[imported_John o]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

The pointy end is forward. to the left of fwd is Port. :^)

If the ship is built with no "pointy end" then port and starboard would be determined by the direction of travel.

Some ships, tugs and other auxiliary type craft mostly, have vertical propellors. These props are a circular arrangement of vertical vanes where the whole arrangement rotates and theh vanes are adjusted to provide thrust in any direction. They can move forward, backward, left or right without turning the craft.

So it's possible that the ferry doesn't have a "powered end" either. (vertical props are normally amidships on the centerline).

Of course all my knowledge on this comes from the ship world. Might be different rules in the boat world.

 

[rjlipscomb]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

And to RJ and Smoke, there ain't no "steering board" on this vessel . . .

But, there was a helm, wasn't there? I'll stick with my answer for now.

 

[itsaboattime]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

According to the U.S. Navy's Boatswains mate 3 & 2 qualification book,(had to dig it out of the back of the closet) port is defined as to the "left" of the bow and starboard is to the "right" of the bow. Now I know the Navy isn't the omnipotent athority on everything , but according to that defination, it doesn't seem to matter if the bow switches ends of the vessel, port is left and starboard is right.

I believe it also has everything to do with direction of travel, and I am supposing that there are two sets of running lights.

 

[JB]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

It seems logical to me that on a bidirectional river ferry one side would always be facing the current (upstream or current side) and the other would always be downstream or Lee side.

This would be close to the secondary terminology (Windward or Leeward) used aboard sailing vessels under weigh.

Both of these sets of terminology are dynamic, related to the vessel's interaction with its environment rather than static, related to the vessel itself.

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

Well, the navigation lights exist in the arrangement they do to indicate a vessel's direction of travel. Notwithstanding a boat going in reverse, it is simply a matter of how the captain determines the use of his vessel. If you have a boat with two bows, or rather, an indistinguishable stern, then it's "Captain's choice". Whichever end he says is the bow, is the bow, and he may change that as he sees fit as long as he adjusts his signaling apparatus accordingly.

Just the same, legally he does not have to change the light arrangement unless he chooses to indicate that the bow end of the boat has been changed. There is no law saying he cannot "Reverse" across the channel. The only thing that would change in this scenario would be his sound signals.

The power and its location have nothing to do with the definition. So? port and starboard are relative to the captain in this situation, as indicated already.

 

[QC]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

Got it. Thanks DR. Here's a pic, they go back and forth, never turn around.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

hmmmm well heck.....now I think I'll go with the "wherever the captain says" theory

I wonder what the cg would say if I put red and green lights on the stern and a white one on the front.... LOL

 

[roscoe]

Re: Port or Starboard? All messed up now.

Hmmm,
We have a tethered ferry in Merrimac WI.
It runs across the river, held in place by 3 large cables.
Don't know if it is a raft, or a boat.
Don't see any registration numbers.
The lights are red and green, signaling when you can drive onto the deck.
Don't see any nav lights, even though it crosses the Wisconsin river, and runs 24/7.

I guess they can do as they please, it is owned by the state, part of the state highway system, and we use it for free.