POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

[craze1cars]

OK, it's not realy a poll, but I'm very curious. In many posts here, there appears to be a lot of people who feel that tongue weight is supposed to be 5% to 10%. I find this intriguing as I cannot find a reputable printed source that recommmends anything less than 10%.<br /><br />I've read towing guides form Ford, Chevy, and Dodge, they all recommend minimum 10% to maximum 15% (5th wheels 15% to 25%).<br /><br />My Triton snowmobile trailer owner's manual says 10% unless it's a "light" trailer (unfortunately they don't define "light") in which case it should be 15%. All my other trailers I purchased used and I don't have manuals.<br /><br />An on-line search revealed a FEW sources who recommended the lower tongue weights, but NONE of them appeared to have any factual basis other than being written by self-proclaimed "experts".<br /><br />So....if you'd like to humor me, please everyone dust off your vehicle and/or trailer owner's manuals and towing guides and find me some quotes. I'm genuinely curious what is correct. And for those of you in the under 10% school of thought, please share the source of your reasoning.<br /><br />I'm signing off for the weekend, so I'll check back probably Monday to see where this goes.<br /><br />Thanks! And happy hunting!

 

[fondafj]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

craze1cars,<br /> I too was concerned as all the non-boat trailers I ever towed recommended 10-15% tounge weight. The difference is, boat trailers have a single beam, or "pole tounge", that runs from the trailer main frame to the actual ball connection. Hence the 5-10% tounge weight you see mentioned on the forum. Trailers designed for other purposes have and "A frame" that ends justs inches from the ball mount and can withstand a much higher tounge weight. Here is a clip from my Shoreland'r trailer setup manual:<br /><br />"STEP #3: Figuring Tongue Weight... is important because too little will cause<br />trailer sway and too much will cause uncontrolled "pushing" of the tow vehicle.<br /><br />A. Transom should be flush with the end of the bunks/rollers to make sure that tongue weight calculation is correct.<br /> <br />B. To determine proper tongue weight, total the package weight (boat with fuel/battery, motor with maximum horsepower, and trailer) and multiply it by 6% on single axles and 5% on tandem axle trailers. ShoreLand'r suggests that tongue weight may be acceptable in a 5-7% range. "<br /><br />Oh, and here is one from EZ Loader website FAQ's:<br /><br />"How much tongue weight do I need?<br />Assuming your vehicle's hitch will carry the load, the general rule of thumb is to have between 5% & 7% of the combined weight of the trailer and boat. As an example, if your boat weighs 4,000 pounds, and your EZ Loader trailer weighs 1,000 pounds, you have a total combined weight of 5,000 pounds. You then could have from 250 to 350 pounds of tongue weight. Remember that too little tongue weight will often cause 'fishtailing'."

 

[LubeDude]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

I have always had smaller boats, 15-18 and have had from almost (0) to about 100#s. My current boat would require a tounge wieght of about 175#s. It has maybe 65#s at most and handles great. My old Ranger if I filled the tank had a slightly negative tounge weight and towed fine but it was better after I put the spare tire on the tounge. I guess it depends on the outfit.

 

[DJ]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

Boat trailer-tongue weight should be 5-8% of the total loaded trailer weight.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

Cent thanks for that explanation, i have never seen anyone point that out before. and those % you see are not for boat trailers.<br />my father always adjusted his tongue weight to where the trailer didn't sway as tow speeds. And that always seemed to work, cause i pull one of his "old" boats now! never weighed the tongue, but i can lift it if I have to. and boat/trailer weigh at least 4000lbs. I know I can'i lift 400!

 

[BillP]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

It's been so many years I don't even remember where I got 10%. It was probably from my father or grandfather or from trailer shops when buying trailers. We've towed boats since I was old enough to remember and I'm 57. What I do know is 10% has worked perfectly on every trailer (7)I've had. Drastically less (5%?)tongue weight has caused bad sway for me so I personally would be very cautious with 5%. Light tongue weight that does fine under normal towing might turn into major sway when a big semi blasts buy. Sway is WAY more dangerous and uncontrolable than push. I'd rather err on the "push" side.<br /><br />If it was a tandom I'd consider less tongue weight because they are more stable. I also suppose the max allowed tongue weight on new cars has made trailer mfgs lower the tongue weight numbers to the bare minimum. I can't believe there is much margin of safety with only 5%. Otherwise the avg jack wouldn't be towing his 26'cc with twin ob engines and putting 600lb on the tongue. If memory is right my big American V8 rear wheel drive car only has a 300lb max allowed tongue weight.

 

[craze1cars]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

Thanks, Centsless, for the quotes from the boat trailer websites. That's really what I was looking for...I find it real interesting they they contradict what most of the vehicle manufacturers say. Like you say, maybe it's just the difference between a boat trailer and an "other" type of trailer. <br /><br />I'd love to hear more actual trailer and/or vehicle manufacturer recommendations if anyone has them handy (from ALL different types of trailers). The personal stories/theories and "the way I always did it" thoughts are nice, but I'm really more interested in hard printed facts. But since we're sharing, here's my own personal opinion:<br /><br />I've always run very heavy on my tongue weights...usually 13% to 15% (based on my vehicle owner's manuals), that was with the idea that I was erring on the side of caution as it's well known that light weight causes sway. And they've always been stable as a rock at any speed for nearly 30 years now (boats, snowmobiles, and travel trailers). Of course I'm generally well oversized as I do most towing with a 3/4 ton crew-cab long wheelbase truck that can easily handle a lot of extra tongue weight. I suspect it's far more critical on the newer smaller passenger-type tow vehicles like BillP said, as they just don't have the springs to take the load without dragging bumpers.<br /><br />Thanks to all, and keep the ideas coming if you got 'em!

 

[craze1cars]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

Originally posted by DJ:<br /> Boat trailer-tongue weight should be 5-8% of the total loaded trailer weight.

DJ, if you don't mind me asking....where did you get your numbers from?<br /><br />Thanks!

 

[Lou C]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

Load Rite trailers says 5-7% on their website, similar to what EZ Loader and Shorelander say. The 10-15% is for travel trailers.<br />My guess is that if you compare a travel trailer to a boat trailer, they will typically have a much longer overhang aft of the rear wheels of the trailer than a boat trailer does, thus making them more prone to sway.

 

[Bondo]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

I've towed about Every Size,+ Shape of Trailer Imaginable,........<br /><br />In My Experience,...... Any Less than 10% is going to cause either Towing,.. or Ride Issues,.............<br /><br />And,....... As far as the Maximum %,..??....<br />If the Tow Vehicle can Handle the Weight,......... More is Better...... Up to the Hitch Limit of course.......

 

[garycinn]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

CT says 5 to 7 percent:<br /><br /> http://dep.state.ct.us/rec/boating/safety/trailering.htm <br /><br />Searay says 5 to 8%:<br /><br /> http://www.searay.com/PDF/Towing_Guide/SEA_RAY_TG_2004_Chap05.pdf <br /><br />Boating Life Magazine 5 to 8%:<br /><br /> http://www.boatinglifemag.com/article_content.jsp?ID=36642 <br /><br />BoatUS 5 to 10%:<br /><br /> http://www.boatus.com/onlinecourse/documents/SMALLCRAFT.html

 

[craze1cars]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

Thank you, garycinn. Great info. So I guess that pretty well confirms that boats need quite a bit less tongue weight then other types of trailers. This pretty well answers my confusion as to why this particular site (about boats!) often recommends lighter weights than I've heard elsewhere.<br /><br />In fact that SeaRay site is extremely comprehensive, and spells everything out REAL nicely as they cover other types of trailers as well. I wish I could cut/paste this, but I figured it was worth retyping for everyone's benefit (this has been paraphrased by me, but covers their facts):<br /><br />"Since most trailer boats have a heavy engine on the rear, and a long tongue (distance from trailer axle to hitchball) they often have lighter tongue wieghts than travel trailers. Typical for travel trailers should be 10 to 15 percent. Boat trailers commonly have 5 to 8 percent. So it's not unusual for a boat to have a tongue weight of 200 lbs on a 4000 lb towed weight, while another type of trailer may have a 600 lb weight for the same 4000 lb load."<br /><br />I feel better now with what I've been reading here. Thanks, all!

 

[gewf631]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

Originally posted by Lou C:<br /> My guess is that if you compare a travel trailer to a boat trailer, they will typically have a much longer overhang aft of the rear wheels of the trailer than a boat trailer does, thus making them more prone to sway.

Don't forget too, that travel trailers also have a much larger surface area, and aren't necessarily as aerodynamic as a boat, so they're more prone to effects of cross-winds.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

Having towed travel trailers for many years, the most common sway problem with them is the bow wave or air pushed sideways off the nose of a passing semi. As that wave hits the back of the trailer it tends to pivot the tongue toward the center line which tends to move the back of the tow vehicle in that direction which then points the nose toward the ditch. Unsuspecting/inexperienced drivers very often lose control under those circumstances. Electric brakes on travel trailers can be operated manually which snaps the rig straight but unless you are alert and experienced, things happen so fast one can easily react too slowly. Since the overhang issue doesn't exist to that extent on boat trailers those forces don't come into play nearly as much. That said however, Controlling sway is why I prefer electric brakes even on a boat trailer. It simply gives you one more level of control.

 

[craze1cars]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

Speaking of aerodynamics, it would also seem to me that a boat travelling at highway speeds will likely start to "plane" a bit on air, due to the shape of its hull.<br /><br />Does anyone here think it's possible that if you have 6% tongue weight while parked in your driveway, the airflow of 65 mph towing might actually create some noticable lift under the bow and you end up with maybe 4% tongue weight at speed? I really have to wonder if such an effect may be the cause of sudden sway at certain speeds when the tongue goes past that "too-light" threshhold, ESPECIALLY when you get that sudden passing truck or headwind gust.<br /><br />Or am I just crazy?

 

[QC]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

Originally posted by craze1cars:<br /> Or am I just crazy?

Well . . . just look at your f_nscreename . . . <br /><br />Actually, I think the distance between the tow vehicle and trailer eliminates most of that lift. A lot of swirling air back there, not much directly hitting the bottom at a true 65 MPH. There is definitely some effect, but I bet more is coming off of the top of your truck and driving the bow down . .

 

[Silvertip]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

Actually Quietcat, I believe Honda has two tow ratings for the Pilot, one for boats and another for everything else. That tells me the boat cuts through the air better, and as Crazy implied, the shape creates lift. Next time you follow a boat being towed, look at the cover. Chances are its billowed out. Thats a low pressure area and low pressure means lift from below. (Makes me wonder how fast I need to go on the freeway to actuate my Smart Tabs.) I tend to agree with Crazy and I personally feel tongue weights under 10% are simply not adequate.

 

[QC]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

UIS,<br /><br />Yeah, but when I look at my cover it is pushed down on the bow and billows up over the cockpit. Funny, but that is why I said the opposite as to your experience. I tow with an Expedition, so the air would be different than a pick-up . . .

 

[Realgun]

Re: POLL: What should tongue weight really be?

If it sways move the axle back an inch if it does not then your fine. Geez that hard eh?