Path of Water Flow Through Cooling System?

dogsdad

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Aug 8, 2003
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Motor: Merc 135 V-6, 1991. Ser. No. 0D007523<br /><br />I've had my boat back out on the lake a couple of times since I destroyed the impeller due to ignorance one hot day in August. I replaced the impeller and ended up having to replace a switchbox too, which I think failed due to overheating. The motor runs fine now, but I think I am seeing abnormal temperature readings. It's hard to be sure though, because I hadn't had the boat that long before I broke it, so I am not positive that it always ran at 145 degrees before.<br /><br />Anyway, I have been fiddling with it. One day I was about to replace the thermostats, so I left the thermostat housings off the motor and ran it to see what the water flow was like. Water gushed out like I would have expected. I put the new thermostats in the motor and ran it, and I still am seeing temps of about 185 degrees (but it does seem to fall to 145 occasionally). By the way, I tested my overtemp horn and it works, and I get no overtemp alarm during any of this.<br /><br />Today I dropped the Lower Unit again to see if there was anything visibly wrong, and I saw nothing. But while I had the Lower off, I hooked up a garden hose to the water intake pipe and ran the motor, and I still saw the higher-than-normal temps. So my water pump is off the hook, right?<br /><br />I took the hose off at the starboard thermostat and blew through it. No constriction there. I undid the hose where the poppet outflow goes to the top of the powerhead. I blew air back down the hose to the poppet, and also into the fitting on top of the powerhead and there was no apparent restriction there either.<br /><br />I've looked at a lot of threads here where folks are advised that they should be able to hold their hand on one of the cylinder heads for five seconds, and the telltale stream is supposed to be cool (really??). I find neither to be the case with my motor. I can put my hand on the heads for about three seconds, and the telltale stream is hot---hot enough to produce a little visible steam vapor. I can keep my hand in the telltale stream about five or six seconds.<br /><br />So, I am thinking I have eliminated the water pump itself by running directly off the garden hose. The pump seems to deliver a good supply of water to the thermostats, which are new. And the outlet from the thermostats does not seem to be clogged. The one thing I am not certain at all about is the poppet. How does this work, and why? Where does its flow come from, and where does it go? And WHY?<br /><br />I am beginning to think that my temp sending unit may have been damaged during the overheat episode. Is this possible?<br /><br />Thanks in advance!<br /><br />-dd-
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Path of Water Flow Through Cooling System?

Hello<br /> the cooling water water leaveing the cylinder heads Via the thermostat discharge on that engine. tell tale stream on the 2.0 and 2.5 as well as the 3.0 is discharge from the tstat. I wont use the Merc t-stats use the sierra part number 18-3672. this part number is a self flusing t-stat with a small vent notched in the poppet.see if a auto or marine store will order you a melr-stick with a 175 degree melt. if it melts it is too hot if it does not your fine. I keep a piece on my heads and check it often to see if any overtemp is occurring<br /> most hot alarms go off between 180 and 250 so I try to find the heat problem before it melts a piston.<br />Good luck and keep posting
 

JLEHighland

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Jul 30, 2002
Messages
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Re: Path of Water Flow Through Cooling System?

dogsdad<br /><br />The poppet valve relieves excess water pressure in the powerhead during higher rpm and is probably designed to open at around 12lbs. <br /><br />I had a heating problem in my 175 v6; maybe this will help. The gage showed the heating but the alarm never sounded. The port side, where the gage sender is located, was also noticeably hotter to the touch. I was able to check flow out of each ‘stat while they were installed and found the port side outlet only half as much water as the starboard side. Replaced both stats, serviced the poppet valve and water pump for no help. Checked the port head for restriction and found it to be clear and clean. I had a shop pull the powerhead where they found water leaking through the gasket at the base of the powerhead, which has solved my problem.<br /><br />Good luck.<br /><br />JLE
 

dogsdad

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Re: Path of Water Flow Through Cooling System?

Thanks for the replies, JLE and rodbolt.<br /><br />I realized just a day or so ago that the poppet's function would be to allow some water to bypass the powerhead when the revs go higher. Some of the opther posts I have read implied that, but it wasn't clearly stated. <br /><br />JLE, I'll check to see if I can verify one way or another whether I am having a problem similar to the one you were having. I think I'll look at the thermostat flow out of each head, under a microscope to see if there's a difference between the two.<br /><br />Thanks again guys!<br /><br />-dd-
 

KCLOST

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Jun 22, 2002
Messages
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Re: Path of Water Flow Through Cooling System?

I don't think you have a problem....<br /><br />On your motor, the temp sensor is measuring the metal temperature of the head, not water temp. If your sensor is located under the #2 spark plug (left side bank) you are measuring metal that is very close to the combustion chamber where temps are 400-500+... <br />Readings of 190-200F are normal with this setup. Your overheat sensor will not go off until metal temp. reaches 240F.. That sensor is under the #1 plug.<br /><br />But it is a good idea to check everything out. Your water flow sounds fine. You have new stats. So the gaskets are worth a look if you have the time (winter). But I think you are ok...<br />What rpms are you at when you are seeing the 185F temp?
 

dogsdad

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Re: Path of Water Flow Through Cooling System?

KCLOST, this happens at any and all RPM ranges. Even in the driveway with the muffs on.<br /><br />I wish I could be sure, but I think the thing ran at 145 before I overheated it...but I honestly don't recall.<br /><br />Thanks for all the replies!<br /><br />-dd-
 

BillP

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Aug 10, 2002
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3,290
Re: Path of Water Flow Through Cooling System?

I believe your memory is correct. The motor is probably supposed to run normal at the 145F range. Check with the motor mfg to see what they say or check the Tstat published temp. Don't depend on accurate temps when using a pressurized hose in the driveway either. Even a little pressure will mask problems with a marginal impeller or tstat (learned from the school of hard knocks).
 

KCLOST

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Jun 22, 2002
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Re: Path of Water Flow Through Cooling System?

Try this, <br /><br />First remove the Temp Sender and the Over-heat sender... When you do that look at them and determine what you are actually measuring (metal or water).. I would bet that they are both going through a hole in the water jacket cover and into a hole in the head, so you will be measuring metal temp....<br /><br />If that is the case, you will not get readings of 145F... Your stats are 140-145F spec. So if they open at that range your water temp is going to go beyond. And your metal temp will even get higher than the water...<br /><br />Anyway, after you remove the senders, switch them out and run the motor and see if your readings change... This may tell you if you have a gasket problem on one side or the other....
 

dogsdad

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Re: Path of Water Flow Through Cooling System?

Today I swapped positions of the temp sending unit and the overheat sensor. On this motor, these both get a reading off the metal---neither is wet. Anyway, I swapped positions of the two and I got exactly the same results I have seen before...no change.<br /><br />While I was at it, I disconnected the thermostat discharge line and used my wife's meat thermometer the take an actual water temperature reading. At idle, the water leaves the thermostat housings at 143 degrees. When I revved the motor up to about 3000 rpm, the water temperature went up to about 150-155 degrees.<br /><br />I wish, wish, WISH I had paid more attention to what the gauges said during normal operation back before I broke the boat the first time, but it appears to me that there really is no problem, with the exception of a possible damaged temp sending unit. Everything else seems to be normal.<br /><br />Maybe my memory is where the problem really is.<br /><br />Thanks for all the help!<br /><br />-dd-
 

KCLOST

Commander
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Jun 22, 2002
Messages
2,095
Re: Path of Water Flow Through Cooling System?

That's good news... I still think your sending unit is fine, and showing the proper temps off the metal. But I'd be "interested" to know what happens if you do replace it (you might as well) and get different readings.... I always want to learn more about anything regarding temps on v6 mercs. And I have to admit that 185F at idle does sound a bit strange on the muffs... <br /><br />But these motors are funny. I don't know how many topics I've read about "high temps" with these 80's Mercs... The problem (not really a problem but a confusing thing) is that the sensors are measuring metal temp. And most knowledgeable boaters don't like seeing temps close to 200F.. But that's the nature of the beast with our motors...<br /><br />I even called Mercury about a month ago, and talked to a lady and asked her what the proper temperature was suppose to be... She put me on hold for 10 minutes more than once, and finally said that the proper temperature was 143F due to the thermostats that are rated for that. Anyway, I could tell she was "not sure" and had no idea that the temp sensor was measuring metal not water... I just gave up trying to explain to her. <br />I do know that the overheat sensor (measuring metal) won't go off until it reaches a temp of 240F.. If that happens, guess what your water temp. will be (assuming your pump is working properly)? <br />Do the math, 185F metal = 155F(X) water.... X = increase factor<br />X = 185/155 = 1.19<br /><br />240F/1.19 = 201.6F<br />At 240F it will be ABOUT 200F... That's a problem and what will signal an alarm on other motors that have water measuring sensors....<br />I hope this helps...
 
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