open bow safety

[83mulligan]

I have a crestlner superhawk 1700. I'll be using it on occasion for saginaw bay/lake huron, etc to fish. Obviously, I'll have to pick my days better than with my old slickcraft. That said, I'm looking at ways to make it a little safer on bigger waters. I see alot of threads about canvas bow covers and I don't subscribe to the theory that they will help much if you stuff the bow. I'm thinking more along the lines of putting in two decent sized scuppers to exit water out the sides (below the windshields, and closing off the area between the deck and the bottom of the walk through. also considering a set of scuppers on the back deck. I realize this would not be a true self bailing back deck, but could be of benefit in an emergency to help the two or three bilge pumps catch up. Thoughts on this kind of design please. Also, if you own a smaller crestliner I'd love to hear you experience with the hull design in moderate seas.

 

[ThrottleBack]

Re: open bow safety

Growing up on the Atlantic I was a bit shocked the first time I saw lake Michigan. I was more shocked my first time out on the lake when I could not see shore. I was in disbelief the first time a big carrier went by (its a LAKE!) and I felt so much at home the first time we got caught in rough weather.

The point being I read this thread and somehow I still cannot wrap my head around the nature of those damned lakes, it's like being on the ocean sometimes. I'm down south now with great fishing but it ain't the Atlantic and it ain't MI. Enjoy the boat and be safe.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: open bow safety

I think adding scuppers is asking for trouble if you don't have a deck that is sealed from the bilge

 

[83mulligan]

Re: open bow safety

I think adding scuppers is asking for trouble if you don't have a deck that is sealed from the bilge

How could it be trouble?I see them as working in conjunction with the bilge pumps. Especially on the open bow deck where they would discharge a foot above water line. I think it would be an advantage vs. having a couple bilge pumps trying to do all the work, no?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: open bow safety

JAWS: " I think you're going to need a bigger boat!"

 

[Air Traffic]

Re: open bow safety

Well I think when you said picking your days is the most important thing. Plus if you are staying relatively close to shore or going out as far as the "spark Plug Buoy" or Charity Islands. It sounds like an intersting idea and while I wouldn't want to test it in countinous 6-8 footers it may be something worthwhile for that sudden rougue wave when you are hightailing back to shore ahead of a gust front. I used to have a 20ft bowrider I used on the lake out of Port Sanilac but just didn't feel I got enough "calm" days to enjoy it. If youu try the design, keep us posted on how it works in various conditions.

 

[Grandad]

Re: open bow safety

I've stuffed waves with both a 15' and a 17' boat, both of which had closed bows. Looking at 6" of water on the deck (and spilling over the windshield) made me shiver to think what would have happened if the bow was open. I'm not familiar with the efficiency of scuppers, but I think that if you fill the bow with water after stuffing a wave, you'll no longer have that 1' of freeboard that you need. A water-filled open bow will become super heavy on the nose and more likely to stuff the next wave before the scuppers can drain. My opinion is that open bows are great family boats for calm water in good weather, but not for use offshore on the big lakes. - Grandad

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: open bow safety

the only way to get rid of a boat full of water in a bowrider requires an outboard.... you GAS it and let most of the water spill over the transom and PRAY that your pumps get rid of the rest before the next dip

In a boat with scuppers you OFTEN get water coming in them and if that water can drain to the bilge you could have a serious problem

IMHO forget the scuppers and either find a better for the big water boat OR get a couple HUGE bilge pumps an epirb and great insurance
If she goes down, you get rescued and they write you a check to buy a more seaworthy boat.

 

[greenbush future]

Re: open bow safety

I am thinking you are asking for trouble if you think you need this kind of modification to the boat. The canvas will deflect the waves but the real solution is to avoid the situation all together. I boat the same area's and with minimal planning, this concern is addressed by staying off the lake. And in the rare situation that you may get caught, you maneuver the boat in a safe fashion, it isn't that hard. I haven't done that in 20-25 years of boating on the great lakes, same style boat. I would nix the idea of adding the drains, that's false security.

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: open bow safety

Having a lot of experience on the G.L.'s with a Bowrider (Starcraft) I can assure you that the bow cover will help more than you think.

I have stuffed the bow more times than I care to admit and the canvas bow cover kept almost every bit of water out. Except what came over the windshied at times.

I never saw any reason for scuppers as you describe them. It's not about handling water once it gets in, it's about keeping water out to begin with.

 

[dingbat]

Re: open bow safety

Water weighs 8lbs per gallon.

It's not hard to put a couple of hundred of gallons of water in the boat. I stuffed one during a tournament last year that overwhelmed six deck drains and breached the transom cutout 12" above deck. No problem, the boat is design for such thing, but the #1500-2000 of extra weight would put a boat using your proposed configuration on the bottom before youy knew what happened.

 

[83mulligan]

Re: open bow safety

Maybe I did not state myself clearly in the original post. This is NOT a solution or feelgood fix to go cruising around irresponsibly in 4 to 6 footers on the Great Lakes. I've spent thousands of hours on them and respect them. What I'm proposing is just another layer of protection in a "what if" situation where a lot of water could come in at once. I'd like to know that some (not all) of the water is exiting the bow immediately through the scuppers in front of the windshields. The rest is going to end up on the deck. Hopefully some of that will keep on going right out the back like dingbat said. Just a thought. Please don't turn this into a get a different boat thread, its just not the case.

 

[83mulligan]

Re: open bow safety

All that said, perhaps my time is better spent designing a water deflection piece for the bow out of some 3/8" lexan that I have laying around. Thoughts on that?

 

[Knot Waiting]

Re: open bow safety

All that said, perhaps my time is better spent designing a water deflection piece for the bow out of some 3/8" lexan that I have laying around. Thoughts on that?

Deflection may be your best protection. I agree with the others and would entertain this idea over the scuppers.

 

[Grandad]

Re: open bow safety

All that said, perhaps my time is better spent designing a water deflection piece for the bow out of some 3/8" lexan that I have laying around. Thoughts on that?

Sounds like an excellent solution to me. It could be made in segments that would be easier to stow onboard in smaller pieces, but when in use would collectively keep a wave from filling the bow. - Grandad

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: open bow safety

Maybe I did not state myself clearly in the original post. This is NOT a solution or feelgood fix to go cruising around irresponsibly in 4 to 6 footers on the Great Lakes. I've spent thousands of hours on them and respect them. What I'm proposing is just another layer of protection in a "what if" situation where a lot of water could come in at once. I'd like to know that some (not all) of the water is exiting the bow immediately through the scuppers in front of the windshields. The rest is going to end up on the deck. Hopefully some of that will keep on going right out the back like dingbat said. Just a thought. Please don't turn this into a get a different boat thread, its just not the case.

Completely understood. Don't underestimate how much water a bow area cover can keep out. It's a cheap and easy solution.

In addition, it keeps the wind out of the rear cockpit area on those cold days. A BIG difference.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: open bow safety

FWIW the point was that the scuppers would drain SO LITTLE that they weren't even close to being worth the small risk of letting water in in certain circumstances.
I at least didn't think you planned to be reckless..... I was just trying to illustrate how little good the would do.

Scuppers are for draining rain and to allow the last of the water out that didn't wash over the transom and they don't drain a swamped boat fast at all.
the bow cover, while, as you know, it doesn't guarantee anything, WOULD add that layer of protection you are looking for.... I did a bit of lake Erie boating in a starcraft center console with a canvas bow dodger with wooden bows under it... It DID deflect some water.

I think the main thing to take away tho is that the dodger will deflect an amount of water that the bilge pumps could have easily kept up with... If you stuff the bow under 2-3 feet of water such as would swamp the boat, there's a good chance that the dodger will collapse and the windshield will be smashed.

where it could really help tho is in the situation where 5 gallons is coming over the bow every few seconds.... keeping 4.5 of them out could be priceless.

 

[crabby captain john]

Re: open bow safety

Scuppers are to be used on boats designed for them. Adding them to a bowrider is not a bad idea it is a real bad idea. You need a bigger boat designed for the big water. At least -- have 3 pumps onboard no more than 2 per battery.