Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

Wimperdink

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

government of the people, by the people, for the people, unless the government disagree's that its in the best interest for their vacation funds. :D
 

Boomyal

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

State courts are constantly and arrogantly overturning the will of the people. It happened here recently in WA when an initative rolled back the usery annual auto licence fee. The state court had the unmitigated gall to overturn this initative that had passed by the largest majority ever for a WA State initative.<br /><br />Fortunately, the State Legislature, sensing a revolt from the people, passed legislation that duplicated the overturned intitative. As you might imagine, the Legislators had to swallow hard to vote for this bill that whisked millions away from their grasp. But they all did want to get re-elected so they held their noses and voted yes.
 

neumanns

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

I'm zoned residential, I cannot even comprehend approaching the state and asking them for money because I cannot sell as commercial witch would bring more money...<br /><br />To me that would be like buying a Ford ranger and then asking Ford to compensate me latter because it cannot pull my 37,000 lb sailboat...It was not the intended pourpse when I bought it why should I just expect it is my right.<br /><br />Reform of zonning laws if need be but ask the state for compensation??? sorry this is a bad apple to begin with IMO...
 

ZmOz

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

Originally posted by neumanns:<br /> I'm zoned residential, I cannot even comprehend approaching the state and asking them for money because I cannot sell as commercial witch would bring more money...<br /><br />To me that would be like buying a Ford ranger and then asking Ford to compensate me latter because it cannot pull my 37,000 lb sailboat...
That is not a fair comparison. The law was supposed to compensate people who's property values went down for whatever reason AFTER they bought it.<br /><br />If you bought your property zoned commercial and planned on putting in a shopping mall, and then the state changed the zoning to residential, you would be compensated for the loss in value. That is completely fair and reasonable.<br /><br />That would be like buying a truck with a 10,000lb tow rating for a 10,000lb boat, then Ford has a service bulletin that says the truck is only safe to tow 4,000. If that happened alot of people would sue Ford and get compensation.<br /><br />The state also had the option to lift whatever restriction that caused the value to go down on a case by case basis. This way they wouldn't have to pay out a cent in compensation.
 

PW2

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

I hate these initiatives, as it simply causes chaos in government.<br /><br />Everything an initiative addresses has multiple consequences that are never addressed in the initiative itself, and that legislators have to fix the messes they cause.<br /><br />Vote in the legislators you want, and let them govern. If you don't like what they do, vote in someone else, but don't try to piecemeal policies in a hodgepodge manner like these initiatives do.
 

neumanns

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

If that is the case then maybe, but that is not explained very well in the article I linked to. Course I don't know the details... ;) <br /><br />Rule #1...The state knows what is best for you.<br /><br />Rule #2...The state is always right.<br /><br />Rule #3...You have the right to agree with the state, If for some reason you do not RE-READ RULE'S #1 AND #2 <br /> :D
 

Boomyal

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> I hate these initiatives, as it simply causes chaos in government.<br /><br />Everything an initiative addresses has multiple consequences that are never addressed in the initiative itself, and that legislators have to fix the messes they cause.<br /><br />Vote in the legislators you want, and let them govern. If you don't like what they do, vote in someone else, but don't try to piecemeal policies in a hodgepodge manner like these initiatives do.
Hmmm! why am I not surprised that this is your position PW? The only difference here PW, is the messes that our legislatures leave behind are expected to be dealt with by us. Usually in the form of increased costs.<br /><br />What is so chaotic about paying up if the government changes the value of your land while you own it? The only mess created here is the one where the politicians have to decide which of their favorite pet social projects they have to give up.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

While initiatives can be a pain, (Seattle's Monorail), they at least serve as a check/balance against our elected representitives to do whatever they want, whenever they want....Except when it comes to baseball or football stadiums (of course!) ;) It allows the people to take action without having to wait 2-4-6 years to vote the bums out & fix things, A/K/A GWB......If these laws were passed in '73, how many people would this really affect? How many people have actually held onto their land since these laws passed? Now that urban pressure has made the land much more valuable, people want to cash in...Here's what I think should happen: If you are the individual who was on the deed when these laws passed,(not your kids, grand-kids, nieces,nephews,in-laws, out-laws)....Then, the remaining few should be re-examined for re-zoning on a case by case basis....As far as voting yourself money out of the state coffers, neat trick, but unfair for those who pay taxes in,say,.... downtown Portland...If they built a third runway for the airport next to your house, should you get compensation from the government because your property value went down? I think not! We pick where we want to live...If we make a poor choice then we should not expect someone else to pay for it....JK
 

Kalian

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

Here in California the people voted against gay mariage, so the legislatures worked up an initiative to try to do an end run around the voters. Typical California politics.<br /> Can somebody tell me why we're having such budget problems? I just don't understand how a state with as rich of resources as Ca has could be so damn poor. Besides all the natural resources we have huge shipping ports, we have holywood, we have property taxes on the highest priced real estate in the country, we have silicon valley and a host of other resources. We are spending money to put up a "thermal curtain" for lake shasta and other lakes, yet I have to drive my kids to their field trips because the state "doesn't have enough money" to pay for the gas in their school bus. How rediculous is that? The priorities are all wrong here. I could rant all day about it, but I won't. I'll just end it by saying this is what happens when you let liberals run the govt. I think the rest of you guys out there should pay a little more attention to what happens here in Ca, because all the nonsense that goes on here that you guys laugh at and think is so funny, is coming your way! Donate to the republican causes in Ca, and lets turn this state around before we ALL have to deal it!<br /><br /> P.S. Just thought I'd mention, I read on msn that Ca people have 10 times as much toxic build up in their bodies as residents of other u.s. states. Shows you how much damage I mean good the treehuggers are really doing here!
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

Alot of the tax money is off-set by illegal imigrants sucking the life out of the health services....JK
 

Boomyal

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

Kalian, it's just the price you pay when the inhabitants turn the state into a 'peoples republic' :p <br /><br />Look at all the slime ball left wing whacko legislators that Californians have elected.
 

demsvmejm

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

A government cannot be forced to choose between exercising its power...to regulate for public welfare, health or safety or paying private parties to comply with the law," James said. "Because Measure 37 imposes limitations on the government’s exercise of power to regulate land use in Oregon, it is unconstitutional."
I think this is a pretty responsible interpretation and ruling. If this initiative is what the residents want, then plan for it. Too many things were left unprepared according to the article. Like enforcement, standards, etc. The article mentions nothing about the example you gave of buying commercially zoned land and then it being rezoned residential and decreasing in value. If you buy a 10 acre parcel and it's worth $500,000, then a residential development goes in next door and your "paradise" suddenly drops to $350,000 because of the density change, does that give you claim to compensation? The area was zoned residential. Or say you bought a small store operating as a general merchant. Two miles away Walmart builds a store and sucks your customers away. This intense commercial competition surely will drop the value of your commercial property, does this give you claim to compensation? The zoning did not change, but development within the same zoning and restrictions in place when you bought lowered your land's value. <br /><br />Suck it up, accept that misfortune happens. If you don't like it, do something (intelligent and with aforethought) about it. But don't expect someone there to pay you for your suffering.
 

demsvmejm

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

Originally posted by Boomyal:<br /> Kalian, it's just the price you pay when the inhabitants turn the state into a 'peoples republic' :p <br /><br />Look at all the slime ball left wing whacko legislators that Californians have elected.
There's that terrified right-wing mud slinging again. Don't like, don't agree with it, call it names and try to drive it's self-esteem as low as yours. The intimidation and name calling is losing it's power over the masses, and that had the redumblican party nervous. And maybe I am a troll, but I'm a proud Independent Thinking troll.
 

BassMan283

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

"Warren Buffett used his own properties to illustrate an example.<br /><br />His home in Omaha, Nebraska is valued at about $500,000 and recent annual property tax was $14,401.<br /><br />His home in Laguna Beach, California is valued at $4.0 million and recent annual property tax was $2,264."<br /><br />Yes, Kalian, you have incredibly high priced real estate in California but you pay almost no taxes on it due to Proposition 13, one of a number of short-sighted propositions passed by Californians over the years to avoid paying taxes. I pay $1750 a year on a condo valued at $135,000. If there was such a thing as a $135,000 condo in California, the taxes (by extrapolation) would be about $92 a year. This may be why your schools can't afford gas for field trips.<br /><br />You want services, you pay . You don't want to pay, you do without services.
 

Homerr

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

So one could proobably say... Don't Californicate Oregon?<br /><br />Too late though... It's already happened!<br /><br /> :D <br /><br /><br />H.
 

Kalian

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

Thats a poor example. In California, the property tax rate is 1% of selling price. If Mr. buffet sold his house today the tanual tax for the new owners would be $40,000. In todays market of rapid apreciation, the houses have seen a lot of turnover, so the example you gave is very misleading. But even if we drop real estate taxes from the equation, we still have a great number of resources without it. The problem is obviously the "tax and spend" philosiphy, the money stream coming into the govt is being misspent.
 

Boomyal

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

Originally posted by BassMan283:<br /> "Warren Buffett used his own properties to illustrate an example.<br /><br />His home in Omaha, Nebraska is valued at about $500,000 and recent annual property tax was $14,401.<br /><br />His home in Laguna Beach, California is valued at $4.0 million and recent annual property tax was $2,264."<br /><br />Yes, Kalian, you have incredibly high priced real estate in California but you pay almost no taxes on it due to Proposition 13, one of a number of short-sighted propositions passed by Californians over the years to avoid paying taxes. I pay $1750 a year on a condo valued at $135,000. If there was such a thing as a $135,000 condo in California, the taxes (by extrapolation) would be about $92 a year. This may be why your schools can't afford gas for field trips.<br /><br />You want services, you pay . You don't want to pay, you do without services.
Ignorance is bliss Bassman. You've conveniently left out the rest of the story. As has been mentioned, California property tax has been limited to 1% of the purchace price. Once you purchase the property your annual taxes cannot be raised more than two percent a year. <br /><br />Sounds pretty reasonable to me. When you buy, you know what your tax will be to start and you know what to count on as the years go by. No more taking 9-11% annual increases out of your pocket. If you have a problem with that then you have your head screwed on backwards.<br /><br />Furthermore the property turnover rate is very high in California, so the state gets to catch up on current evaluation every 6-7 years.<br /><br />I also sorely doubt that Buffet has a 4 mil piece of property that he only pays $2200 a year on. Besides that, he doesn't cost the government any more than the guy in his $135k condo anyway and he probably contributes plenty to the state in other ways.
 

Kalian

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

Also,<br /><br />"You want services, you pay . You don't want to pay, you do without services."<br /><br /> I agree, 100%! I would think that gas for the school bus would rank a little bit higher than the thermal blanket at lake shasta or lake almanor, or say, the program that grants $500 to someone who fails their smog test (for repairs on the vehicle)on their vehicle. Lets use a little common sense here and start taking care of the important stuff first. <br /> If california could demonstrate to me that they are spending my hard earned dollars wisely I'd GLADY drive my kids to their field trip! But they can't even account for millions of tax payers dollars that are floating around out there in la-la land somewhere.
 

Kalian

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Re: Once again... Oregon voters said NO... but the state said yes.

I forgot to include why I agree with the <br />"You want services, you pay . You don't want to pay, you do without services."<br /> So here goes. <br /> I don't want all the services like thermal blankets for lakes, grant money to fix your beat up old car so it can pass a smog test, a corrupted caltrans(the equivalent of most other states D.O.T.) medical( a state run suplement to medicare), etc. etc. I don't want to pay for them either. And I don't know all the rediculous programs Ca has got going, I moved here a year ago. (I was born and raised in Ca, but moved out about 12 years ago, and only moved back recently because of health problems with my daughter) but the more I see, the more it bothers me. Did you know that you can't carry a gun in public if it's not for hunting? I would like to take my kids bank fishing at lake Orovile but there are ratlesnakes, wildcats and other things to deal with. I have been told that if I caried my gun on public property, even if it was out of the city limits and in plain sight it's against the law. If I have any gun in my possesion I better either have a conceal/carry permit or be hunting, and if I'm hunting I better be at the place I designated as my hunting area. I had to get this info from the tackle shops here. Hopefully it's wrong. I called the sheriffs office but they wouldn't tell me the gun laws, they gave me a phone # to call instead. Some Ca department of justice, or something like that. Great, another beurocracy(sp) to call and spend an hour getting shuffled from one rude incompetent lazy state govt. worker to another. And then I find out my handgun is probably banned in Ca because the makers refused to do a "drop test" on it. A drop test? What? Give me a break! How lame is that? Who gives a f... if it goes off when you drop it! Don't drop it! How many millions and billions of people are killed when they drop their gun and it goes off anyway? I just can't remember the last time I loaded and chambered a round and then dropped the gun and it went off. I also can't remember EVER of ANYONE ever being in the news because they were shot when they dropped their gun. Now, somewhere, I'm sure it's happened, but is it such a threat to society that you have to ban the sale of a gun that hasn't been drop tested?<br /> Well, I didn't mean to rant like that, I have plenty more, but I'll try to stop now.
 
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