OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

[slarson1us]

I have a 1987 Bayliner 3255 Avanti with twin OMC Cobra 5.7's. I've been having trouble lately getting the port engine to come out of gear in both forward and reverse, although I notice it mostly in forward. Sometimes it comes out just fine, but other times, no go. I don't try to force it, but it won't go. If I turn off the engine, it comes out fine. I then start the engine again, and it stays in neutral until I shift it again. I know there is an interupter switch on these, but not sure exactly where they are, how they work, and where the adjustment is if there is one. The starboard engine comes out fine. Anybody have any ideas?<br />Thanks,<br />Steve

 

[lakelivin]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

Start here for detailed info on Cobra history & shifting problems.<br /><br /> http://www.hastings.org/~stuart/cobra/index.html <br /><br />Sounds like problem with your shift interupt system, either bad ESA module, bad switch, or system out of adjustment. Do you have a service manual (highly recommend the OMC OEM one vs. Clymers or Seloc). It lists procedure for checking the components I mentioned.<br /><br />Don't have my manual handy, but you might do an iBoats search in this category using the words "cobra" "ESA" "test". I'm pretty sure there have been past posts addressing how to test which part of the ESA system is causing the problem.<br /><br />Good luck!

 

[rbezdon]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

Easiest way to check is to start the engine and just activate the ESA by either pushing on the spring loaded "w" shaped lever or directly on the spring arm of the switch and see if the engine RPM drops when the switch is activated. If the RPM drops go to the Stuart site and reset the system, if no drop, trouble shoot if the switch or the ESA is bad and replace as necessary. By the way, I have found that the replacement ESA from dealers requires bypassing the over stroke and the eftermarket one from CDI/Rapair does not. I would use the CDI part if you need to replace the ESA and you have the added bennefit of being Pertronix compatible in the future should you decide.

 

[slarson1us]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

I vaguely remember making an adjustment to an older King Cobra that I had many, many years ago. Is the ESA on top of the engine where the cables change from the control to the motor to the motor to the outdrive? I remember taking out a cotter key and turning a round nut a turn or two to make the adjustment. Does that sound correct? Or is that for the actual shift process? I remember doing something manually with the shift interupter because the engine stumbled, but can't remember exactly what I did. Obviously, I don't have a manual other than the owner's manual. Why would it go into gear fine, but not out of gear? Does the interupter only work for coming out of gear?<br />Thanks,<br />Steve

 

[rbezdon]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

Coming out of gear the load of the prop turning keeps the gears loaded making them difficult to dis engage. In theory, the ESA also should activate to go into gear but is MUCH less critical. The gears will engage even with out the ESA. ESA principally slows the engine a bit to reduce the "clunk" going into gear so you'll notice a mis adjusted or broken much more coming out of gear than going in.<br /><br />The ESA module itself is a black box usually mounted to the intake manifold with a wire harness going to the back of the engine wiring harness for ignition controlled +12 and the coil - connections and a second wire harness going up to the shift mounting bracket . On the shift mounting bracket there should be two switched, the ESA activate, which has a long arc spring going to a "W" shaped lever which activates the ESA when the shift cable has a "load" from shifting and the second switci is the over stroke which defeats the ESA activate switch when the shift is fully engaged and you are applying throttle to the engine. Hope this helps you find the switch to activate it manually and see if the engine slows (stumbles) when you push it. If this happens, get the instructions in the link below and set up the shift the right way. If it doesnt stumble, replace the ESA and/or the switches.<br /><br />Switches: http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/sealed/e70.htm <br /><br />ESA:http://www.go2marine.com/g2m/action/GoBPage/id/90470F/omc_shift_assist_module_cdirapair.html

 

[slarson1us]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

Thanks. This has been very helpful. I recognize the ESA. I believe the one I "played with" before was the one with the knob on the end of the lever. The switch that says CDI doesn't look familiar at all.<br />Steve

 

[lakelivin]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

Forgot to mention that you should check to make sure that your idle is set to specs. Too high and it could cause shift problems, but the way you describe it, bet it's one of the ESA system components.

 

[slarson1us]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

You guys have been great. I was at the lake today with my boat the tried the shift interupter. With the boat in neutral and the engine running, I found the switch and manually moved it like it would be on the "W" shaped fitting to the point where it should have interupted the idle, but nothing happened. I tried it on the other engine, and voila, it stumbled. So now I know it is the switch. It looks like it goes to a wiring harnes with a few wires in it. Is this a simple matter of removing the 2 screws on the switch, unplugging it from the harness and replacing it? If so, how do I know which switch to get. I'm going up again next weekend and would like to get this ordered if I can to take with me. Thanks in advance.<br />Steve

 

[radarone]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

Hi, I would like to add some info, I have a 1985 OMC Cobra, I replaced the overstoke and interuptor set at a cost of $81.00, found it not to be the problem, I took it out this weekend it still seems to jump out of gear for a moment, with a bang, I noticed while in gear the whole shift mechanizm would jump when it jumped out of gear forcing the interuptor/over stroke switchs to momentarily activate causing the engine to pop back through the carb, replacing the switches just stopped the backfiring, the outdrive still bang's every ten to twenty seconds or so, I don'tknow if your experiencing the same problem or not, but don't rush out to buy that switch set.

 

[rbezdon]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

Steve, If you look up in this thread I posted the web link to the Cherry switches. Both are available from mouser.com for $12 each. I got a new ESA switch (left the over stroke alone but it is the same series with a dirrerent actuator). If you look at this invoice copy you will see the correct mouser part number. It is in stock, 3 day delivery by ground. I paid just over 12 plus 5 ground freight.<br /><br />SHIP DATE: 08/23/05<br />PURCHASE ORDER NO: 08/23/05<br />ORDER DATE: 08/23/2005<br />-----------------------------------------------------------------<br />ORDERED STOCK NUMBER SHIPPED PRICE EXTENDED<br />-----------------------------------------------------------------<br /> 1 540-E72-40KT 1 12.210 12.21<br /> Cherry Electrical Pr<br /> SPDT 10A SEALED <br /><br />-----------------------------------------------------------------<br />SHIPPING INFORMATION<br />FOB: SHP POINT<br />-----------------------------------------------------------------<br />MERCHANDISE 12.21<br />HANDLING 0.00<br />FREIGHT 5.63<br />TAX 0.00<br /> -----------<br />TOTAL $17.84<br /><br /><br />PS: do your self a favor and chech connections, connectors and wiring before changing the switch. Switch not activating could also mean a bad ESA module. If that is the case, order the CDI/Rapair part I posted. They have it at go2marine for $80 but I did see it some where on the internet for about $60 too.

 

[slarson1us]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

OK, so do I start with the switch and try it, or is there a way to bypass that to see if it's the ESA? Sorry there are so many questions.<br />Steve

 

[rbezdon]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

yes you can test the ESA and switch seperately. If you can get a continuity tester or ohm meter pull the connector in the wire harness between the switxhes mounted to the shift bracket and the ESA module. There should be 4 connections in the connector two of which are going back to the ESA. Take the connector on the switch side and measure continuity or resistance between the two pins where the wires from the ESA would connect if the connector is connected. The two points should read open until you activate the ESA switch. Then it should read closed or low ohms (short) if this reading is OK the switchs are very likely OK. Now take the ESA side of the connector. GEt a short piece of wire stripped at both ends start the engine and short the two contacts coming from the ESA together by insterting the ends of the wire into the connector. When you have the wire in shorting the two connections together the engine should stumble. If it doesnt either the ESA is bad or the power connection coming to it is bad. On the other side of the ESA is a purple and grey wire connected to a wire harness coming in the back of the engine, one of the main wire harnesses. The purple wire should be coming from ignition switched +12v and the grey wire connects to the coil -. Make sure these connections are good, clean and correct. If they are and the engine does not stumble with the shorting wire in then the ESA is most likely the problem. One other thing you could try would be to swap the ESA module from the "good" engine. Should be only two bolts and two connectors, a 5 minute effort.

 

[slarson1us]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

Well, I ordered a new ESA and plugged it in this weekend, and it had definitely gone bad. With the engine running, I moved the switch and sure enough, the engine started to stumble just like it is supposed to, but now I have a related problem. When I went to the helm and shifted into gear, the engine wouldn't come out of "stumble" mode. So... I started looking at the places that the cable from the helm connected at the motor and started to play around with it. No laughing out there. I first started with the one on top, the red linkage, which comes directly from the helm. I always kept track of where I started so I could put it back where it was. I wasn't really getting anwhere, and noticed that the cable from the lower unit comes in at the bottom of the "W" shaped thing (again, no laughing out there), and thought that maybe that's where I should be making the adjustments. So I put the top one back where it was when I started and began with the back one. I have it adjusted now so that it stumbles coming in and out of gear, but wants to continue to stumble in forward until I back off on the throttle to neutral and then slowly go forward. Then all is fine. Comes out of gear just fine. However, when I go into reverse, it dies sometimes and stumbles and I know it isn't right. I know there must be a way to adjust this. Can somebody help? You guys have been great. The ESA went in great, plug and play, with the exception of the wires coming out of the wrong side of the ESA. I worked around it. I'd like to get this straightened out before I have to winterize the boat in a couple of weeks.<br />Thanks in advance. <br />Steve

 

[lakelivin]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

go back & thoroughly read Stuarts site I linked above. You nay need to click on a link on the original page, but get to the 'Five step process for adjusting Cobra shifting' (or something along those lines). It will guide you in setting the cables and the two switches linked to the ESA (interrupt and overstroke).

 

[slarson1us]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

Thanks, LakeLivin. I looked at it briefly, and will study it more tonight. <br />Steve

 

[slarson1us]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

Well, I've studied it very carefully, and decided that it's probably beyond me. I don't want to really screw things up and ruin my gears. I guess I'll have to have the marina adjust if for me. Anybody have any idea how much this will cost?<br />Steve

 

[Don S]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

This isn't something that just "Goes out of adjustment" like car clutches and brakes. You have a problem, without knowing what that problem is it's just completely impossible to tell you how much it would cost or even estimate without knowing EXACTLY what is wrong.<br />It could be a problem with the wiring, the cables, the switches or the ESA itself, who knows maybe in the drive or the linkage.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

Originally posted by Skipper1us:<br /> Well, I've studied it very carefully, and decided that it's probably beyond me. I don't want to really screw things up and ruin my gears. I guess I'll have to have the marina adjust if for me. Anybody have any idea how much this will cost?<br />Steve

The five step adjustment procedure is actually pretty straight forward, especially if you print out the pictures related to the instructions (even better is if you have an OEM OMC Service Manual, since some or the pics on stuarts sites are kind of dark). It is all in the engine compartment. Some of the other stuff relates to adjustments in the pivot housing or the drive itself, which you may see as too complicated. <br /><br />I'd recommend that you at least try the 5 step adjustment process first. Of course, it assumes that the other adjustments referred to are correct, and if they're not, your 5 step procedure isn't likely to work and like Don says you'll need to find out exactly what's wrong.<br /><br />No idea as far as cost to have a shop do it, but strongly suggest you make sure they have a mechanic that has significant Cobra experience. Ask some questions, not just 'do you work on Cobra drives'. A shop without sufficient OMC experience may do more damage than help (from experience).

 

[slarson1us]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

Thanks, LakeLivin. I'll look at the 5 steps again. It's a little difficult because I can't just go out in the back and check it out. My boat is about 125 miles away, so the only time I get to work on it is when we go to use it.<br />Steve

 

[lakelivin]

Re: OMC Cobra Problem coming out of gear

If you're that far away, plan on keeping the boat for any length of time, and would like to do any repairs/ maintenence yourself, you really should consider investing in the OMC OEM Service Manual and Parts Manual for your Cobra. They can usually be found on eBay (make sure you get the correct year & model for your Cobra).